The Law

[Sam1995]

@ Sam
your statement is also very non Christ like. i honestly don't care if you are joking or not but you should respect other peoples choice of diet. Christ followed the Torah so he did not eat pork. would you respond to him with such a childish comment?

Well, you should care, because then you miss the context of what was said.
Also, what a stupid question to ask, are you Jesus?

SB

[RickD]

Mr. Sensitive pants wrote:
you said real men eat pork so you are saying the jewish people and Jesus aren't real men which i do find very disrespectful...

I SAID IT IN JEST, ZIONIST!!!! What part of that don't you understand? You really think that I would think that one's manhood lies in whether or not one eats bacon?

All along, I've made it a point on this thread to say that if someone doesn't want to eat certain things as a believer, then that's fine. Someone is not any less of a man if he doesn't eat certain foods. I can't believe I actually have to explain myself with this!

[Zionist]

@ sam
first off your responses are not very christian like and second Yeshua was Torah observant so He did not eat pork...i see no stupidity in the question just your unwiilingness to admit you would not say that to Messiah. what is it with believers now just so quick to bash other believers and not just that we are supposed to be one in Messiah but with attitudes like that it don't seem like it..
@ Rick
regardless if you are joking or not i took offense to your poem degrading jews...you can call me what you will but i still say your attitude was not becoming for a believer in Messiah...your reasoning for acting that way is "an eye for an eye.." mentality which is not what the Lord would advocate so im sorry if others made you feel a certain way but it does not excuse your actions...also it does not set a good example for young believers like sam.

[RickD]

Zionist wrote:
regardless if you are joking or not i took offense to your poem degrading jews...

My poem wasn't degrading anyone. Anybody, including Jews are not less human because they choose not to eat bacon.

.you can call me what you will but i still say your attitude was not becoming for a believer in Messiah...your reasoning for acting that way is "an eye for an eye.."

Because I called you "Mr. Sensitivepants"? So now you feel you can judge my attitude? My reasoning for joking is an eye for an eye? That makes no sense. I'm not the one here advocating we observe Old Testament Law. Especially an eye for an eye.

" mentality which is not what the Lord would advocate so im sorry if others made you feel a certain way but it does not excuse your actions...also it does not set a good example for young believers like sam.

Zionist, what in the world are you talking about? I think you need to take a good long look in the mirror, and fix yourself before you can even presume to judge the intentions of others.
My intentions were a joking nature, not degrading.

[Sam1995]

@ sam
first off your responses are not very christian like and second Yeshua was Torah observant so He did not eat pork...i see no stupidity in the question just your unwiilingness to admit you would not say that to Messiah. what is it with believers now just so quick to bash other believers and not just that we are supposed to be one in Messiah but with attitudes like that it don't seem like it..

Would God approve of your obviously pretentious comments?

SB

[jlay]

Zionsists. As a fellow forum member, I can say with all sincerity that if you are offended by such things that you do not need to participate in online forums.

I never felt like Rick was doing anything other than making a harmless joke. Get over it and move on.

Scripturally speaking, Let no man declare unclean what the Lord has made clean.

[KBCid]

Isa 65:2 I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts;
What people eat swines flesh.... certainly not Jews.

Oh you meant people like me. I get it. Thanks for the judgement call. Must be really comfortable for God, seeing you doing his job on earth until he returns.

It is not my judgement. The words written are not my own. they are directly taken from biblical text. Do you feel Gods word is judging you only when I copy it into a post? If God says he has a problem with swine eaters who am I to say otherwise. When other humans assert that swine is ok is where there is a conflict of interest... not between me and the person asserting it so much as it is a conflict between the written word and the assertion.

Rom 7:7 I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

[neo-x]

Rom 7:7 I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Rom 8:1-4
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering.And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

It is not my judgement.

Yes it is yours, because you are cherry picking here.

The words written are not my own. they are directly taken from biblical text

And out of context and broader meaning.

Do you feel Gods word is judging you only when I copy it into a post?

If God says he has a problem with swine eaters who am I to say otherwise.

I think you should read the new testament over and over again, until you realize the problem in your statement.

When other humans assert that swine is ok is where there is a conflict of interest... not between me and the person asserting it so much as it is a conflict between the written word and the assertion.

Matt 5:17-18
"Don't you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? But the things that come out of the mouth come from the
heart, and these make a man 'unclean.'

These are not my words either.

[KBCid]

I was not degrading nor disrespecting anybody. "Real men eat bacon" was a joke. It was meant to lighten the mood of this thread. Nothing else.
1 Timothy 4:1-4 1But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, 2by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, 3men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth. 4For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude; 5for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer.

Apparently Zionist, Rick feels that the above scripture is a message from God that we don't have to worry about anything we eat. We could eat poo and it would be ok based on this rationale.
What I think would be wise here is to take a closer look at the evidence Rick is bringing to the table from scripture and see if it backs the interpretation that he thinks it does.

The scripture referenced above is not 1 Timothy 1:1-4, rather it is 1 Timothy 4:1-4 in case anyone is confused. So let's break down the scriptures quoted and see what is being said;

1 Timothy 4:1-1 But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons...

This should be fairly easy to comprehend. God says people will fall away from faith, (the new testament faith in salvation through Christ). This will occur because they will be decieved by spirits with the purpose of deceit and doctrines of demons and this is true. Look at how many christian sects there are when the body of Christ is supposed to be one body, one faith. So it is clear that there is a problem with being deceived and believers falling away.

1 Timothy 4:1-2 by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron...

This states that those who will fall away will do so because their beliefs are driven by understandings originating in deceit and demonic doctrines which are held as absolute truth in their minds.

1 Timothy 4:1-3 men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods...

These types of people who will or have fallen away will exhibit such doctrines as the forbidding to marry doctrine and another that involves the abstaining from foods. The first part is easy to understand but the second has not yet been clarified. So the question here is what foods would would one who has fallen away advocate abstaining from? Is it anything that can be stuffed into your mouths and be considered sustenance? or does God clarify the meaning of this statement? Let us see.

1 Timothy 4:1-3 ...which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.

Clarification... Food which God has created to be shared. So anyone who advocates that any food which God created to be shared shouldn't be eaten has a doctrine of demons. The question now is what food did God create to be shared? Has God ever defined what food he created for us to share? Of course he has.

Lev 11:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, These are the beasts which ye shall eat among all the beasts that are on the earth....
Lev 11:46 ....This is the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth:
Lev 11:47 To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten.

So God has defined what he has made for us to share and anyone who by the doctrine of demons advocates that people should abstain from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared is in error from Gods intent. So is swine one of the foods God created to be shared? and am I advocating that you should not eat a food that God created to be shared?.

The big question we all need to ask ourselves(and I'm not excluding myself from this): Are we living under God's Grace, or are we trying to gain God's approval by obeying the law?

Does Christ assert that we need to obey anything in order to gain approval.

Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

2Co 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
2Co 6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Apparently Christ and God feel that there are terms involved in a covenant which each party is expected to honor and in their eyes if you don't honor the demands of the covenant then you don't get to have the promise asserted by it. So are we supposed to perform a certain way to be approved of God? Yes.

Not only are we not to murder in reality but we are also not supposed to hate our brothers because in Gods eyes this is equivalent to murder. God asks us to be holy. How does one become holy without effort? What does it mean to be holy.

[KBCid]

Rom 7:7 I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Rom 8:1-4 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering.And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

So this means it is now ok to do anything that was formerly described as a sin. right?

When other humans assert that swine is ok is where there is a conflict of interest... not between me and the person asserting it so much as it is a conflict between the written word and the assertion.

Matt 5:17-18
"Don't you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean.'[/i]

These are not my words either.

Speaking of out of context....

Matt 15:17-18 was directly in reference to;
Mat 15:20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

So we are free to eat any food that God has approved as food with unwashed hands because such things will not defile you. Remember to a Jew food is anything approved by God. Swine is not considered food. If you take such things as Matt 15:17-18 and interpret them as you are then you would also be free to eat blood since based on your interpretation of the scripture 'ANYTHING' which goes into the stomach is clean. So we are free to eat poo and pee and blood and things sacrified to idols. right?

[neo-x]

Remember to a Jew food is anything approved by God.

Im not a jew.

If you take such things as Matt 15:17-18 and interpret them as you are then you would also be free to eat blood since based on your interpretation of the scripture 'ANYTHING' which goes into the stomach is clean. So we are free to eat poo and pee and blood and things sacrified to idols. right?

Precisely yes you can, because that won't make you spiritually unclean. You may eat poo of you like the taste, but its unhealthy so you may ignore it too, but I fail to see how that defiles you spiritually.

So this means it is now ok to do anything that was formerly described as a sin. right?

you are not silly, k, so stop making silly statements.

[RickD]

RickD wrote:I was not degrading nor disrespecting anybody. "Real men eat bacon" was a joke. It was meant to lighten the mood of this thread. Nothing else.
1 Timothy 4:1-4 1But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, 2by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, 3men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth. 4For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude; 5for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer.


KBCid wrote:
Apparently Zionist, Rick feels that the above scripture is a message from God that we don't have to worry about anything we eat. We could eat poo and it would be ok based on this rationale.
What I think would be wise here is to take a closer look at the evidence Rick is bringing to the table from scripture and see if it backs the interpretation that he thinks it does.

KBC, the above scripture just points out that those who tell believers that they must abstain from certain foods, are following a doctrine of demons. All food was created by God, and was declared "clean" here:
Mark 7:14-23 14After He called the crowd to Him again, He began saying to them, “Listen to Me, all of you, and understand: 15there is nothing outside the man which can defile him if it goes into him; but the things which proceed out of the man are what defile the man. 16[“If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear.”]

17When he had left the crowd and entered the house, His disciples questioned Him about the parable. 18And He said to them, “Are you so lacking in understanding also? Do you not understand that whatever goes into the man from outside cannot defile him, 19because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and is eliminated?” (Thus He declared all foods clean.) 20And He was saying, “That which proceeds out of the man, that is what defiles the man. 21“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed the evil thoughts, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries, 22deeds of coveting and wickedness, as well as deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride and foolishness. 23“All these evil things proceed from within and defile the man.”

The scripture referenced above is not 1 Timothy 1:1-4, rather it is 1 Timothy 4:1-4 in case anyone is confused.

Thanks for posting the mistake I made with the chapter number. I fixed it in my post.

KBC wrote:
These types of people who will or have fallen away will exhibit such doctrines as the forbidding to marry doctrine and another that involves the abstaining from foods. The first part is easy to understand but the second has not yet been clarified. So the question here is what foods would would one who has fallen away advocate abstaining from? Is it anything that can be stuffed into your mouths and be considered sustenance? or does God clarify the meaning of this statement? Let us see.
1 Timothy 4:1-3 ...which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.

Clarification... Food which God has created to be shared. So anyone who advocates that any food which God created to be shared shouldn't be eaten has a doctrine of demons. The question now is what food did God create to be shared? Has God ever defined what food he created for us to share? Of course he has.

KBC, the word here in blue, translated as "shared", is "metalepsis". It means "a taking, participation". Not "share" like I have food, and I'll share it with you. God has declared all foods as "clean", per Mark 7:19. So, nothing a believer eats, makes him unclean. Some things we as believers eat aren't the most healthy things, but the text is talking about how foods don't defile a believer. Whereas in OT law, certain foods eaten by Jews, made them "unclean". The healthiness of the food is not what we're discussing.

KBC wrote:
Apparently Christ and God feel that there are terms involved in a covenant which each party is expected to honor and in their eyes if you don't honor the demands of the covenant then you don't get to have the promise asserted by it. So are we supposed to perform a certain way to be approved of God? Yes.

Ok, let's see here. The new covenant, brought about by the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ allows anyone who puts his faith in Christ, to have eternal life. There are no "demands" to this covenant. All we must do is believe on Jesus Christ. So no, we most certainly DO NOT have to perform a certain way to be approved by God. God "approves" us by the work of Jesus Christ. We don't have a works based salvation. Salvation is based on what Christ did, not what we strive to do. Now I believe this leads into the crux of your argument, and what bothers me the most. You wrote:"Apparently Christ and God feel". When you say "Christ and God", you are denying that Christ IS God, aren't you? Now we need to take a good look at what you mean here. Let's put it in context of what you have said before. In another thread when I asked you this, "Are you saying that the triune God hasn't existed eternally?" you wrote:

KBC wrote:
Is God a father? has he begotten a Son? I cannot deny his assertion it is one of the most consistent points he makes. We are told by his Son that his father is our father and his God is our God. I would say it is a safe bet that Christ came out from his father... when is up for speculation but it was definitely prior to the beginning of the creation of the heavens and the earth. Notice that even the devils recognize that Christ is the son of God otherwise wouldn't they address him simply as God;
Luk 4:41 And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.

I will surely confess that Christ is the son of God the father;
Luke 12:8-9 Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God: But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God.

Act 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus...
1Jn 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
2Jn 1:3 Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.

KBC, this tells me that you don't even believe that Jesus Christ is God. You are making the same mistake that we have been showing 1stJohn0666 has made. So, you as a non-believer, are trying to tell us believers that we need to follow the law to be approved of by God.
I think this point has to be perfectly clear so everyone reading this understands.

KBC wrote:
God asks us to be holy. How does one become holy without effort?

KBC, since you are not a believer in Jesus Christ, I can understand why you would ask this question. One becomes holy by believing on Jesus Christ for one's salvation. When one believes in Jesus Christ, the true Jesus Christ who is God incarnate, the Holy Spirit indwells this believer. The Holy Spirit is God Himself. The Holy Spirit transforms the believer. He(the Holy Spirit) makes a believer holy. We don't become holy by our own effort. That would be a works based sanctification process.

[jlay]

It is not my judgement. The words written are not my own. they are directly taken from biblical text. Do you feel Gods word is judging you only when I copy it into a post? If God says he has a problem with swine eaters who am I to say otherwise. When other humans assert that swine is ok is where there is a conflict of interest... not between me and the person asserting it so much as it is a conflict between the written word and the assertion.

Rom 7:7 I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

K, to be blunt, your constant prooftexting shows a blatant disregard for proper exegesis. When you make such statements, you place yourself as a teacher, and quite frankly I think you are in no position to do so. No question you are a smart guy, but I'd stick to engineering. The context of Romans 7 doesn't at all support what you are attempting to defend. You butcher Paul's words.

[KBCid]

Remember to a Jew food is anything approved by God.

Im not a jew.

exactly my point. You are not a Jew and you are interpreting a jewish POV through a gentile lens. Jews did not consider swine food. You however, do.

If you take such things as Matt 15:17-18 and interpret them as you are then you would also be free to eat blood since based on your interpretation of the scripture 'ANYTHING' which goes into the stomach is clean. So we are free to eat poo and pee and blood and things sacrified to idols. right?

Precisely yes you can, because that won't make you spiritually unclean. You may eat poo of you like the taste, but its unhealthy so you may ignore it too, but I fail to see how that defiles you spiritually.

So you agree that we can eat blood and we can throw in things strangled as well right.

Act 15:14-20 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

So if anything that goes into the stomach is clean then why did the above verses get written? Does God have two points of view on clean vs. unclean.

So this means it is now ok to do anything that was formerly described as a sin. right?

you are not silly, k, so stop making silly statements.

Indeed it is silly to consider that the commands based on the two royal laws are any less in effect now. Especially since the text directly references that they are still in effect and that they were based on the royal laws;

Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

[KBCid]

Apparently Zionist, Rick feels that the above scripture is a message from God that we don't have to worry about anything we eat. We could eat poo and it would be ok based on this rationale. What I think would be wise here is to take a closer look at the evidence Rick is bringing to the table from scripture and see if it backs the interpretation that he thinks it does.

KBC, the above scripture just points out that those who tell believers that they must abstain from certain foods, are following a doctrine of demons. All food was created by God, and was declared "clean" here:
Mark 7:14-23 After He called the crowd to Him again, He began saying to them, “Listen to Me, all of you, and understand: 15there is nothing outside the man which can defile him if it goes into him; but the things which proceed out of the man are what defile the man. 16[“If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear.”]...

What about blood and things strangled? If you are correct along with Neo that 'nothing' outside of a man will defile him then these texts are in error;

Act 15:14-20 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

...17When he had left the crowd and entered the house, His disciples questioned Him about the parable. 18And He said to them, “Are you so lacking in understanding also? Do you not understand that whatever goes into the man from outside cannot defile him, 19because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and is eliminated?” (Thus He declared all foods clean.) 20And He was saying, “That which proceeds out of the man, that is what defiles the man. 21“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed the evil thoughts, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries, 22deeds of coveting and wickedness, as well as deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride and foolishness. 23“All these evil things proceed from within and defile the man.”

Did you know that this "(Thus He declared all foods clean.)" is not part of the original text? It should also be noted here that you are posting specifically those things which do defile a man and what are they;

21“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed the evil thoughts, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries, 22deeds of coveting and wickedness, as well as deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride and foolishness. 23“All these evil things proceed from within and defile the man.”[/quote]

These are direct references to the decalogue that you have also asserted throughout the thread that we are no longer under... and yet here they are for all to see in the new testament defining that these things are still sins under the new covenant and do still defile a man.

These types of people who will or have fallen away will exhibit such doctrines as the forbidding to marry doctrine and another that involves the abstaining from foods. The first part is easy to understand but the second has not yet been clarified. So the question here is what foods would one who has fallen away advocate abstaining from? Is it anything that can be stuffed into your mouths and be considered sustenance? or does God clarify the meaning of this statement? Let us see.
1 Timothy 4:1-3 ...which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.
Clarification... Food which God has created to be shared. So anyone who advocates that any food which God created to be shared shouldn't be eaten has a doctrine of demons. The question now is what food did God create to be shared? Has God ever defined what food he created for us to share? Of course he has.

KBC, the word here in blue, translated as "shared", is "metalepsis". It means "a taking, participation". Not "share" like I have food, and I'll share it with you. God has declared all foods as "clean", per Mark 7:19.

It would not matter how you define the word shared. The fact is that This is a Jewish POV and food does not include swine and a number of other things for them. When a Jew talks about food it is everything approved of by God. The questionable part for them was 'food' sacrificed to idols. This is where the question of clean vs. unclean is defined which is why the statement;

that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

Makes sense. From the Jewish perspective the food that they would accept as food could be unclean because of the pollution of idols and how it was killed. At no time can anyone entertain the concept that they considered swine food. To this day it is still not considered food by them so what is occuring here is the same thing Neo is doing. Reading the scriptures from the POV of a gentile when in fact it is entirely from a Jewish perspective.

Apparently Christ and God feel that there are terms involved in a covenant which each party is expected to honor and in their eyes if you don't honor the demands of the covenant then you don't get to have the promise asserted by it. So are we supposed to perform a certain way to be approved of God? Yes.

Ok, let's see here. The new covenant, brought about by the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ allows anyone who puts his faith in Christ, to have eternal life. There are no "demands" to this covenant. All we must do is believe on Jesus Christ. So no, we most certainly DO NOT have to perform a certain way to be approved by God. God "approves" us by the work of Jesus Christ. We don't have a works based salvation. Salvation is based on what Christ did, not what we strive to do.

Interesting.

1,050 New Testament Commands
There are 1,050 commands in the New Testament for Christians to obey. Due to repetitions we can classify them under 69 headings. They cover every phase of man's life in his relationship to God and his fellowmen, now and hereafter. If obeyed, they will bring rich rewards here and forever; if disobeyed, they will bring condemnation and eternal punishment.
http://www.cai.org/bible-studies/1050-n ... t-commands

And you don't recognise even one of them as binding on a believer.

Now I believe this leads into the crux of your argument, and what bothers me the most. You wrote:"Apparently Christ and God feel". When you say "Christ and God", you are denying that Christ IS God, aren't you? Now we need to take a good look at what you mean here. Let's put it in context of what you have said before. In another thread when I asked you this, "Are you saying that the triune God hasn't existed eternally?" you wrote:

Is God a father? has he begotten a Son? I cannot deny his assertion it is one of the most consistent points he makes. We are told by his Son that his father is our father and his God is our God. I would say it is a safe bet that Christ came out from his father... when is up for speculation but it was definitely prior to the beginning of the creation of the heavens and the earth. Notice that even the devils recognize that Christ is the son of God otherwise wouldn't they address him simply as God;
Luk 4:41 And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.
I will surely confess that Christ is the son of God the father;
Luke 12:8-9 Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God: But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God.
Act 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus...
1Jn 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
2Jn 1:3 Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.

KBC, this tells me that you don't even believe that Jesus Christ is God. You are making the same mistake that we have been showing 1stJohn0666 has made. So, you as a non-believer, are trying to tell us believers that we need to follow the law to be approved of by God.
I think this point has to be perfectly clear so everyone reading this understands.

Your perception of my past text from another thread is a bit odd at this point. This is what is considered a redirect from the point at hand but none the less I will answer to it. God existed within Christ. Christ was the first holy vessel that God the father deemed worthy to dwell within and Christ specifically stated that we will be like him... holy vesssels for the father to dwell within. The holy spirit is God the fathers presence within a believer who loves him. So indeed God was present within Christ and the two are one in spirit.

Act 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
Act 17:25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
Act 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
Act 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
Act 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
Act 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Act 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

God the father cannot ordain himself. He is already the highest power in all respects.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh,but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you . Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

2Co 6:16 ...for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Correctly understood if we are Christs bretheren and sisters etc. and The father will dwell within us... and we are his people then Christ also was a holy vessel that the father dwelled and walked within and this perspective makes sense of the following verses;

Joh 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
Joh 5:20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

Joh 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
Joh 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

I have correctly pointed out exactly what Christ himself has said "the Father that dwelleth in me" God cannot dwell within God but he can dwell within holy vessels which those of us who gain the holy spirit will be... vessels that the Father can dwell and walk within.

God asks us to be holy. How does one become holy without effort?

KBC, since you are not a believer in Jesus Christ, I can understand why you would ask this question. One becomes holy by believing on Jesus Christ for one's salvation. When one believes in Jesus Christ, the true Jesus Christ who is God incarnate, the Holy Spirit indwells this believer. The Holy Spirit is God Himself. The Holy Spirit transforms the believer. He(the Holy Spirit) makes a believer holy. We don't become holy by our own effort. That would be a works based sanctification process.

The more correct assertion here Rick is that I am not a believer in the same perspective about Christ that you are. This doesn't mean that I don't see Christ as the only path to the Father or that he is not the first of many who will also be the temple of the living God. As I pointed out many times there are a vast plethora of Christian sects. Each of which have very specific beliefs about God and Christ all of them cannot be correct. Is your POV the only absolutely correct one? and how do you know?
As I stated to you very many times I am testing my understanding and so far I have not found a defensible assertion from the text given in the threads I have spent time in. This doesn't make me right nor does it make you wrong, we simply don't agree on some specifics about the one and only way to exist eternal with God.
Note that I have not asserted that you don't believe in Jesus Christ simply because of a difference of interpretation about him. My assumption would be that regardless of perception we both desire the same thing... To continue to exist with our maker.