The Law

[RickD]

Gman, KBC,

I've been praying and trying to figure out how to put in words what I believe. I found this article, and pretty much to a T, it says what I believe. I know the article is long, but hopefully it clears up exactly where I stand. FYI, I don't know anything else about the website, so the article is not an endorsement of anything else on the site. Honestly, if I could write what I believe with any clarity at all, it would look like this article:
http://www.letusreason.org/7thAd15.htm

The article is summed up beautifully here:

WE LIVE BY FAITH IN THE SON OF GOD

Faith is a living trust between the believer and God. It means to rely one's whole weight upon God and his work not on anything we can do. Paul said there is nothing good that dwells in me. Faith is only as good as the object in which it is placed. If it is not put in God, it is not saving faith. If faith is put in an inanimate object, commands or rituals it will fail. If its put in the law that means it is dependent on us to keep. This focuses salvation on our work, not Christ's on the cross. Salvation is by faith in Christ the living God and His work alone. Faith is not by our works added by our keeping days, diet, ceremonies, baptism, prayers, or tithing. We must put our faith in His work that was finished once for all. Christ said: “Tetelestai! it is finished!” Paid in full, no more installments. (Gal.5:4 ; 2:21; Rom.3:24; 8:30; 1 Jn.5:1; 5:4 -5). Rom.10:4: “Christ is the end of the law the Greek word is telos which can mean termination or goal. To terminate Thayer's Lexicon defines as, the limit at which a thing ceases. It was replaced. All the Old Testament types and shadows were replaced by the true light they once represented, the one who gave us them. Christ did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it, to bring it to its natural conclusion, to completion. It was there for a time and was then replaced.  It's all been replaced by God himself, now we have the Holy Spirit indwelling us.  

[RickD]

Gman, I'm not going to reply to all of your last post, because it seems we are just going back and forth and disagreeing. But regarding one thing you posted, I felt I just had to enlighten you.

It seems you have a real problem with the belief that some believers, including me, have freedom to eat whatever foods we want. You really have a problem, it seems, with my eating an animal that may eat its own poop. Eating an animal that may eat its own feces really disgusts you. You wrote:

No... I can assure you that gentiles graft into the commonwealth Israel... Not into some pig poo eating stinky church.

I'm not sure if you're aware that chickens eat their own poop. And chickens are considered kosher.

[KBCid]

Hey Gman,
I just wanted to say that this thread has been an extremely valuable resource of information for the subject I'm researching but it has come to the point where being insulted is outwaying the benefit of this interaction. I just wanted to let you know that I'm going to find a different avenue to continue my research in so you won't wonder why I'm not posting here anymore. I will still keep up with the engineering thread tho since that was a primary drive for me in the first place. Stop in and say high sometime as the spirit moves you. and thx for your input.

[RickD]

Hey Gman,
I just wanted to say that this thread has been an extremely valuable resource of information for the subject I'm researching but it has come to the point where being insulted is outwaying the benefit of this interaction. I just wanted to let you know that I'm going to find a different avenue to continue my research in so you won't wonder why I'm not posting here anymore. I will still keep up with the engineering thread tho since that was a primary drive for me in the first place. Stop in and say high sometime as the spirit moves you. and thx for your input.

KBC,
You asked for me to clarify myself, and I posted the article that clarifies my beliefs regarding the law, and its place for believers. Since your last post, or my last post, where have I insulted you on this thread? You asked for clarification so you can understand my position. I gave it to you. If there's something in the article that you don't understand, you can ask about it.

[Gman]

Rom.10:4: “Christ is the end of the law the Greek word is telos which can mean termination or goal. To terminate Thayer's Lexicon defines as, the limit at which a thing ceases. It was replaced.

Actually this isn't true at all.. The greek word "Telos" is the same word we get for "Telescope" or aim... Now look how the highly popular NIV translates it.

Romans 10:4 Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

Notice the NIV does not say the "end" of the law...

All the Old Testament types and shadows were replaced by the true light they once represented, the one who gave us them. Christ did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it, to bring it to its natural conclusion, to completion. It was there for a time and was then replaced.  It's all been replaced by God himself, now we have the Holy Spirit indwelling us.  

If G-d replaced his OT laws then you CANNOT teach against homosexuality, adultery, helping the poor, or loving your neighbor, etc... Why? Because those commandments are FUSED into Christ's teachings.

I better not see you teaching others not to sin amigo....

[Gman]

Gman, I'm not going to reply to all of your last post, because it seems we are just going back and forth and disagreeing. But regarding one thing you posted, I felt I just had to enlighten you.

It seems you have a real problem with the belief that some believers, including me, have freedom to eat whatever foods we want. You really have a problem, it seems, with my eating an animal that may eat its own poop. Eating an animal that may eat its own feces really disgusts you. You wrote:

No... I can assure you that gentiles graft into the commonwealth Israel... Not into some pig poo eating stinky church.

I'm not sure if you're aware that chickens eat their own poop. And chickens are considered kosher.

On rare occasions any animal would eat their own excrements when hungry. However, if you study the digestive track of the pig, you will understand they have a very simple digestive track. Essentially, many of the kosher animals have three stomachs available to process and refine their clean food into their flesh or bodies. A process that can take up to 24 hours in general before the nutrients reaches their body. Pigs process their food in about 4 hours and never limit their food to just vegetation. Therefore many toxins will enter their bodies...

[RickD]

G, first, to avoid confusion, the quotes you attributed to me are from the article, not from me. I agree with them, but they're not my quotes.

Rom.10:4: “Christ is the end of the law the Greek word is telos which can mean termination or goal. To terminate Thayer's Lexicon defines as, the limit at which a thing ceases. It was replaced.


Gman wrote:
Actually this isn't true at all.. The greek word "Telos" is the same word we get for "Telescope" or aim... Now look how the highly popular NIV translates it.

Romans 10:4 Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

Notice the NIV does not say the "end" of the law...

I really don't see a difference between "culmination", and "goal" in this instance. The NASB and NIV say the same thing IMO.

SEE?

cul·mi·nate (klm-nt)
v.intr. cul·mi·nat·ed, cul·mi·nat·ing, cul·mi·nates
1.
a. To reach the highest point or degree; climax: habitual antagonism that culminated in open hostility.
b. To come to completion; end: Years of waiting culminated in a tearful reunion.

All the Old Testament types and shadows were replaced by the true light they once represented, the one who gave us them. Christ did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it, to bring it to its natural conclusion, to completion. It was there for a time and was then replaced. It's all been replaced by God himself, now we have the Holy Spirit indwelling us.

Gman wrote:
If G-d replaced his OT laws then you CANNOT teach against homosexuality, adultery, helping the poor, or loving your neighbor, etc... Why? Because those commandments are FUSED into Christ's teachings.

I better not see you teaching others not to sin amigo..

G, some of those OT laws are written in the heart of a believer by the indwelling HS. Homosexuality(as in homosexual sex), adultery, helping the poor, or loving your neighbor, etc... are all included in the Law of Christ(Loving God and our neighbor) which is written in the hearts of all believers. And, anything that was a sin before the OT law was given, does not stop being a sin. Abstaining from certain foods, following the Jewish Sabbath laws, etc., are not written in the hearts of believers, because they are not part of Christ's law.
And, if you are not following the Sabbath precisely as it was supposed to be observed, then you are not really observing the Sabbath. There was a precise way to follow the Sabbath, that God required. Taking a day off is not the same thing as observing the Sabbath.http://www.teshuvah.com/articles/shabbat/sabbath1.htm

[Gman]

Hey Gman,
I just wanted to say that this thread has been an extremely valuable resource of information for the subject I'm researching but it has come to the point where being insulted is outwaying the benefit of this interaction. I just wanted to let you know that I'm going to find a different avenue to continue my research in so you won't wonder why I'm not posting here anymore. I will still keep up with the engineering thread tho since that was a primary drive for me in the first place. Stop in and say high sometime as the spirit moves you. and thx for your input.

I'm sorry you were insulted KBCid.. Actually you are right.. And I'm as guilty as well with my words too.... Therefore I'm going to limit myself on this topic as well. Whatever you do please don't leave your ID postings... They are very helpful to many..

[RickD]

Gman, I'm not going to reply to all of your last post, because it seems we are just going back and forth and disagreeing. But regarding one thing you posted, I felt I just had to enlighten you.

It seems you have a real problem with the belief that some believers, including me, have freedom to eat whatever foods we want. You really have a problem, it seems, with my eating an animal that may eat its own poop. Eating an animal that may eat its own feces really disgusts you. You wrote:

No... I can assure you that gentiles graft into the commonwealth Israel... Not into some pig poo eating stinky church.

I'm not sure if you're aware that chickens eat their own poop. And chickens are considered kosher.

On rare occasions any animal would eat their own excrements when hungry. However, if you study the digestive track of the pig, you will understand they have a very simple digestive track. Essentially, many of the kosher animals have three stomachs available to process and refine their clean food into their flesh or bodies. A process that can take up to 24 hours in general before the nutrients reaches their body. Pigs process their food in about 4 hours and never limit their food to just vegetation. Therefore many toxins will enter their bodies...

G, Where did I say pork is the healthiest food to eat, and swine should be the main staple of our diet? I understand why there are toxins in a pig. The same toxins are in chicken too, although probably to a lesser extent.
My argument isn't for the healthiness of pork products. I'm saying it's not spiritually unclean for a believer to eat pork.
There are many things that aren't healthy for us to eat all the time. For a believer to use good judgement and eat things in moderation is up to each believer. Are you telling me you never consume food or drink that is not healthy for you? Ever eat vegetables that pesticides were used on? Ever eat chicken and beef that hormones were fed to? Ever drink a coke? Ever drink city water that has fluoride or other metals in it?

[Gman]

I really don't see a difference between "culmination", and "goal" in this instance. The NASB and NIV say the same thing IMO.

SEE?
cul·mi·nate (klm-nt)
v.intr. cul·mi·nat·ed, cul·mi·nat·ing, cul·mi·nates
1.
a. To reach the highest point or degree; climax: habitual antagonism that culminated in open hostility.
b. To come to completion; end: Years of waiting culminated in a tearful reunion.

Again Rick.... That's fine if you want to say "culmination" or "goal"... But not end..... There is nothing in that verse that says that Christ ended the law... Absolutely nothing. Christ was essentially the aim of the law. Not end.

G, some of those OT laws are written in the heart of a believer by the indwelling HS. Homosexuality(as in homosexual sex), adultery, helping the poor, or loving your neighbor, etc... are all included in the Law of Christ(Loving God and our neighbor) which is written in the hearts of all believers. And, anything that was a sin before the OT law was given, does not stop being a sin.

Rick... Ok if Christ's laws ended the Mosaic laws, then why did Paul take four men and have them take the Nazarite vow in obedience to the law?

Acts 21:21-24 They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs. 22 What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come, 23 so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow. 24 Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law.

Why did they cast lots in obedience to the OT laws in the book of Acts?

Acts 1:26 Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles.

Abstaining from certain foods, following the Jewish Sabbath laws, etc., are not written in the hearts of believers, because they are not part of Christ's law.
And, if you are not following the Sabbath precisely as it was supposed to be observed, then you are not really observing the Sabbath. There was a precise way to follow the Sabbath, that God required. Taking a day off is not observing the Sabbath.http://www.teshuvah.com/articles/shabbat/sabbath1.htm

Again.. I believe that it was Christ who gave us the laws on Mt Sinai... It was Christ who gave us the Mosaic laws. Christ is G-d... Right? And there is absolutely nothing in the NT that now says the OT laws are now void. Sure you can argue that the curses (directed towards us) or the animal sacrifices are now fulfilled in Christ, but not the actual Laws themselves.

[Gman]

G, Where did I say pork is the healthiest food to eat, and swine should be the main staple of our diet? I understand why there are toxins in a pig. The same toxins are in chicken too, although probably to a lesser extent.
My argument isn't for the healthiness of pork products. I'm saying it's not spiritually unclean for a believer to eat pork.
There are many things that aren't healthy for us to eat all the time. For a believer to use good judgement and eat things in moderation is up to each believer. Are you telling me you never consume food or drink that is not healthy for you? Ever eat vegetables that pesticides were used on? Ever eat chicken and beef that hormones were fed to? Ever drink a coke? Ever drink city water that has fluoride or other metals in it?

Of course we need to live a healthy life.. Those things weren't even created before the giving of G-d's laws..

Ok I will say this again.... We don't know exactly the "WHY"S" behind all of G-d's laws... We simply don't know.. So then why do we follow them? I would say we follow them of obedience and submission, even if we don't understand why... I believe that G-d wanted believers to ultimately be set apart from the nations unto Him... To force us away from society. Therefore we have eat, dress, and behavior codes... Given to us by G-d. That doesn't mean that we live as hermits either.. It simply means that our daily walk is different from society's walk. Therefore we don't put tattoos on our bodies.. We watch our language... We watch what we eat... Etc.. Etc.. Out of love and obedience... That's all.

Is that clearer?

[RickD]

Gman wrote:
Rick... Ok if Christ's laws ended the Mosaic laws, then why did Paul take four men and have them take the Nazarite vow in obedience to the law?

Acts 21:21-24 They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs. 22 What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come, 23 so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow. 24 Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law.

My guess is because Jewish converts had the freedom to continue following their customs. Customs in following the law is fine. Salvation by following the law is not. Now I know that you agree with that. But the problem comes when Gentiles are told to live by the law that was given to the Jews only. Paul was clear that Gentile believers were not bound by the law.

Gman wrote:
Again.. I believe that it was Christ who gave us the laws on Mt Sinai... It was Christ who gave us the Mosaic laws. Christ is G-d... Right? And there is absolutely nothing in the NT that now says the OT laws are now void. Sure you can argue that the curses (directed towards us) or the animal sacrifices are now fulfilled in Christ, but not the actual Laws themselves.

G, I agree that we can say that Christ gave the laws on Mt. Sinai. Where I don't agree it that he gave them to "us". He gave them to the Jews. How could this be more clear that the 10 Commandments were given specifically to Moses for Israel?
This is crystal clear: Deuteronomy 5:1-6:

Then Moses summoned all Israel and said to them:

“Hear, O Israel, the statutes and the ordinances which I am speaking today in your [a]hearing, that you may learn them and observe them carefully. 2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. 3 The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, with all those of [c]us alive here today. 4 The Lord spoke to you face to face at the mountain from the midst of the fire, 5 while I was standing between the Lord and you at that time, to declare to you the word of the Lord; for you were afraid because of the fire and did not go up the mountain. [d]He said,

6 ‘I am the Lord your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of [e]slavery.

And then it goes on to list the 10.

And Deuteronomy even explains why God gave Moses the 10 commandments here:

Deuteronomy 5:30-33:

30 Go, say to them, “Return to your tents.” 31 But as for you, stand here by Me, that I may speak to you all the commandments and the statutes and the judgments which you shall teach them, that they may observe them in the land which I give them to possess.’ 32 So you shall observe to do just as the Lord your God has commanded you; you shall not turn aside to the right or to the left. 33 You shall walk in all the way which the Lord your God has commanded you, that you may live and that it may be well with you, and that you may prolong your days in the land which you will possess.

Now, 9 of the 10 commandments are in Christ's law to love God and your neighbor. There is nowhere in the NT that says gentile believers are required to obey the Jewish sabbath laws. Nowhere.

Again Rick.... That's fine if you want to say "culmination" or "goal"... But not end..... There is nothing in that verse that says that Christ ended the law... Absolutely nothing. Christ was essentially the aim of the law. Not end

G, Christ fulfilled the law. Christ's law is now written on the hearts of believers. Christ's law is over and above the OT law. If believers now follow Christ's law which is written on our hearts, not tablets of stone, in essence, that written law is obsolete. It is no longer needed. It has served its purpose.

Of course we need to live a healthy life.. Those things weren't even created before the giving of G-d's laws..

Ok I will say this again.... We don't know exactly the "WHY"S" behind all of G-d's laws... We simply don't know.. So then why do we follow them? I would say we follow them of obedience and submission, even if we don't understand why... I believe that G-d wanted believers to ultimately be set apart from the nations unto Him... To force us away from society. Therefore we have eat, dress, and behavior codes... Given to us by G-d. That doesn't mean that we live as hermits either.. It simply means that our daily walk is different from society's walk. Therefore we don't put tattoos on our bodies.. We watch our language... We watch what we eat... Etc.. Etc.. Out of love and obedience... That's all.

Is that clearer?

No G. I still see you conflating Israel with believers. I agree that God gave the laws to Israel to set them apart from the other nations among them. God has now given us Jesus Christ. And faith in him through life by the spirit sets us apart from non-believers. We are not to be forced away from society, but are called to be a "light" within a dark society. We ourselves are not the light, but we are a reflection of God's light.
G, we as gentile believers don't have dress codes, eating codes, etc. given by God. Gentile believers are not prohibited from getting tattoos. That is a liberty we have in Christ. By you saying we as gentile believers don't put tattoos on our bodies, it seems you are saying that we are under the law.
Again, those laws were to separate Israel from the pagan nations they lived near. Tattoos were a pagan tradition. Pigs were used in pagan rituals. Shaving ones beard in certain ways was for pagan rituals.
We are separated from non believers by faith in Christ. Not by obedience and submission to Jewish laws.

[jlay]

Rick... Ok if Christ's laws ended the Mosaic laws, then why did Paul take four men and have them take the Nazarite vow in obedience to the law?

Acts 21:21-24 They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs. 22 What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come, 23 so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow. 24 Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law.

Answer: 1 Cor. 9:20
Paul never disputed the reports. The reports were true in one sense. Paul was teaching something radically different than Peter and the 11.

Why did they cast lots in obedience to the OT laws in the book of Acts?

Acts 1:26Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles.

Why wouldn't they? This is the little flock, who were following the Kingdom program and promises to Israel. Where is the conflict? There is none.

Again.. I believe that it was Christ who gave us the laws on Mt Sinai... It was Christ who gave us the Mosaic laws. Christ is G-d... Right? And there is absolutely nothing in the NT that now says the OT laws are now void. Sure you can argue that the curses (directed towards us) or the animal sacrifices are now fulfilled in Christ, but not the actual Laws themselves.

Sure. And it was Christ who told us to take the Sabbath breaker outside the camp and stone him.
Yet you think it is perfectly fine to say these things (sacrifices) are void. You say the reason we don't stone people is because the temple system is not here. Yet, you say we aren't required to keep the law for salvation? I would say the law of Moses is dependent on the Levitical priesthood. And that system is suspended for a time.

[RickD]

Gman,

I noticed something that you said before, and it brought back something I had touched on as well. And actually, it seems this thought may bring us closer instead of further apart like it seems we've been doing here.

G, back on page 19 of this thread you said:

I believe Christian’s graft into the commonwealth of Israel and are co-citizens of the promises with the Jews

Now I've been doing some looking into what believers are grafted into. And from what I can see, I believe the commonwealth of Israel seems to make sense, so hear me out. The commonwealth of Israel is those who believe in Christ. First it was only the Jews who were given the gospel. So, those Jews who placed their faith in Christ are the commonwealth of Israel, or a kind of "spiritual Israel" that I mentioned a while back. Which is not the same as the nation of Israel. Now the promises given to this Commonwealth of Israel seems to be what gentile believers are grafted into. So, I can see that you're saying that we are grafted into Israel if that's what you mean. But, here's where I think we still disagree. I see you as saying that when God gave Moses the 10 Commandments, they were given to this commonwealth of Israel, and therefore to us as well. I see the 10 commandments given to The nation of Israel, not spiritual/commonwealth of Israel. That's why the law of Moses and all the 613 OT laws don't apply to us. They only applied to the OT nation of Israel, which included all Jews justified by faith or not. Those laws don't apply to the commonwealth of Israel which is only made up of the Jewish believers in Christ, and now gentile believers as well. Now, the branches who were cut off are the unbelieving Jews. And, they can be grafted back in if they place their faith in Christ.

Am I making any sense here?

[Gman]

My guess is because Jewish converts had the freedom to continue following their customs. Customs in following the law is fine. Salvation by following the law is not. Now I know that you agree with that. But the problem comes when Gentiles are told to live by the law that was given to the Jews only. Paul was clear that Gentile believers were not bound by the law.

Ok this is wrong on many levels... G-d's laws were not only given to the Jews but also to the gentiles or foreigners as well.

Exodus 12:49 The same law applies both to the native-born and to the foreigner residing among you.”

And technically there were no Jews until after the time of Abraham. And no Mosaic law either.. However Abraham was justified by his faith AFTER he offered up Issac. Therefore we can see that true faith will always result in action.. According to G-d's word.

Hebrews 11:17 By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had embraced the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son,

G, I agree that we can say that Christ gave the laws on Mt. Sinai. Where I don't agree it that he gave them to "us". He gave them to the Jews. How could this be more clear that the 10 Commandments were given specifically to Moses for Israel?
This is crystal clear: Deuteronomy 5:1-6:
Then Moses summoned all Israel and said to them:

“Hear, O Israel, the statutes and the ordinances which I am speaking today in your [a]hearing, that you may learn them and observe them carefully. 2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. 3 The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, with all those of [c]us alive here today. 4 The Lord spoke to you face to face at the mountain from the midst of the fire, 5 while I was standing between the Lord and you at that time, to declare to you the word of the Lord; for you were afraid because of the fire and did not go up the mountain. [d]He said,

6 ‘I am the Lord your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of [e]slavery.

Again... We graft into the commonwealth of Israel as I stated many time before. There is no special separate covenant of the gentiles... The covenant with Abraham and Moses has not been replaced by the New Covenant. The eternal covenant G-d made with Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and their descendants has NOT been set aside (Romans 9:4, Galatians 3:15-17). We must graft into those promises.. And Christ came for the lost sheep of Israel (Matthew 15:24), not the lost sheep of the gentiles..

And then it goes on to list the 10.

And Deuteronomy even explains why God gave Moses the 10 commandments here:

Deuteronomy 5:30-33:
30 Go, say to them, “Return to your tents.” 31 But as for you, stand here by Me, that I may speak to you all the commandments and the statutes and the judgments which you shall teach them, that they may observe them in the land which I give them to possess.’ 32 So you shall observe to do just as the Lord your God has commanded you; you shall not turn aside to the right or to the left. 33 You shall walk in all the way which the Lord your God has commanded you, that you may live and that it may be well with you, and that you may prolong your days in the land which you will possess.

However you missed the verse before in Deuteronomy 5:14 which ALSO applied to the stranger or gentile among them as well...

Deuteronomy 5:14 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your ox, your donkey or any of your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns, so that your male and female servants may rest, as you do.

Now, 9 of the 10 commandments are in Christ's law to love God and your neighbor. There is nowhere in the NT that says gentile believers are required to obey the Jewish sabbath laws. Nowhere.

Ok if you want to go with this logic, then where did Christ ever teach against homosexuality in Christ's Law? Just point me to the verse... Don't forget that many liberals use this teaching to go against Christ's teachings... And the Bible.

G, Christ fulfilled the law. Christ's law is now written on the hearts of believers. Christ's law is over and above the OT law. If believers now follow Christ's law which is written on our hearts, not tablets of stone, in essence, that written law is obsolete. It is no longer needed. It has served its purpose.

Therefore we are free to sin.... We can do anything we want. Why? Because G-d's laws are nothing more than stumbling blocks and curses to the believer...

Then love has multiple multiple meanings... What about bestiality? Homosexuality? Robbing from our neighbors? What is this weird love? In other words, you yourself define what love is.. If G-d's words are so repulsive...

No G. I still see you conflating Israel with believers. I agree that God gave the laws to Israel to set them apart from the other nations among them. God has now given us Jesus Christ. And faith in him through life by the spirit sets us apart from non-believers. We are not to be forced away from society, but are called to be a "light" within a dark society. We ourselves are not the light, but we are a reflection of God's light.

Well both Paul and Christ were Israeli... They dressed, ate, and talked Hebrew... Were they not light unto the nations?

G, we as gentile believers don't have dress codes, eating codes, etc. given by God. Gentile believers are not prohibited from getting tattoos. That is a liberty we have in Christ. By you saying we as gentile believers don't put tattoos on our bodies, it seems you are saying that we are under the law.
Again, those laws were to separate Israel from the pagan nations they lived near. Tattoos were a pagan tradition. Pigs were used in pagan rituals. Shaving ones beard in certain ways was for pagan rituals.
We are separated from non believers by faith in Christ. Not by obedience and submission to Jewish laws.

Rick.. There is really nothing I can do to convince you... I would suggest if you don't want to follow G-d's ways or plots, that you do your own thing, make up your own rules, buy a big TV set and watch it all unfold after a commercial..

Just do your own thing... Whatever it is...