Kurieuo wrote:Gman wrote:
We certainly don't oppose G-d's teachings. And we certainly don't use it to justify ourselves... G-d's laws convict us of sin so that we try to stop sinning, and also find His grace.
The part in bold, I believe is not true.
Yes.. I believe we have a disagreement... Christ was very adamant that we stop sinning anymore. John 8:11 was very clear that the adulteress stop sinning after He forgave her.
John 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go,
and sin no more.
Therefore a loving G-d also tells us to stop sinning after we have committed something. Why? Because it's the right thing to do...
Kurieuo wrote:The Law was to reveal us sinners and opposed to God (Romans 3:20). We read in Romans 2:6-8 that God '"will repay each person according to what they have done." To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.' The kicker is, "All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one.” (Romans 3:12) We're ALL law-breakers.
Again... We maybe lawbreakers but that doesn't mean that gives us the right to simply cast all of His ways down the toilet either... In fact.. It appears that G-d still would want us to obey Him and stop sinning as well..
John 8:51
Very truly I tell you,
whoever obeys my word will never see death.”
John 14:23
Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me
will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.
Matthew 18:6-9,
“Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea. Woe to the world because of offenses! For offenses must come, but woe to that man by whom the offense comes!
If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life lame or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the everlasting fire. And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire.”
Acts 7:53
you who have received the
law that was given through angels but have not obeyed it.”
Romans 6:12
Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires.
Hebrews 5:9
and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation
for all who obey him
1 John 2:5
But if anyone obeys his word, love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him:
Kurieuo wrote:Therefore, based on works, none of us deserve "glory, honor and immortality" -- none of us can attain it by keeping the Law. Therefore, "stopping sinning" doesn't matter. That is not why God's laws convict us of sin. Brand me a heretic, but it isn't to stop sin, or even so we can try to stop.
Of course we by our evil nature will still sin every once in awhile... The point however is to convict ourselves and try to correct the problem... This is very clear in Romans.
Romans 6:1-2, “What shall we say then?
Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?”
Romans 7:7, What shall we say, then?
Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law.
For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet."
Romans 3:31,
“Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.”
We still need training.....
Kurieuo wrote:God's law only served to make us conscious to our sin, so that we can admit to our frailty and need for a cure. That cure is Christ Himself. And the "free grace" (you: whatever that means -- me: whatever you mean by that!?) is God freely coming down to Earth and taking on human form in Christ, to associate with humanity in order to become humanities kinsmen redeemer who frees us from our sin and penalty of God's righteous wrath. It is something entirely on God's part, and nothing on ours. That is what I mean by "free grace". Free Grace = Our justification despite our sin through the redemption that comes through Christ. (Romans 3:24)
Sure it is Christ working through the Holy Spirit that cleans us and correct us... But we correct ourselves because we would want to out of love... Not hatred or pride or any favors..
Kurieuo wrote:God's laws don't convict us today -- for it holds no power to those who are in Christ. Their purpose has been served and they remain because without them we would not be condemned and therefore the redemption offered in Christ is bankrupt. However, they do not remain to continue convicting us of sin, and certainly not so we can stop sinning or try to stop.
Yes we disagree... By turning from our sin shows that we want to stay with Him and obey. And be separate from the worldly way of sin.. Not condemn.. Live in Him..
2 Corinthians 6:17-18, “Therefore ‘
Come out from among them And be separate,’ says the Lord. ‘Do not touch what is unclean, And I will receive you. I will be a Father to you, And you shall be My sons and daughters,’ Says the LORD Almighty.”
2 Corinthians 7:1, “Therefore, having these promises, beloved,
let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.”
2 Corinthians 7:10,
“For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death.”
2 Corinthians 13:5-6,
“Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you —unless, of course, you fail the test? 6 And I trust that you will discover that we have not failed the test.
Galatians 6:3-5
If anyone thinks they are something when they are not, they deceive themselves. 4 Each one should test their own actions. Then they can take pride in themselves alone, without comparing themselves to someone else, 5 for each one should carry their own load.
Romans 15:4
For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through the endurance taught in the Scriptures and the encouragement they provide we might have hope.
Kurieuo wrote:The guide for those in Christ is no longer built upon the letter of Law, but rather upon love where a true following happens. It is love that makes us want to stop sinning, hurting God, hurting others, to be a better person, to sacrifice our life for others. We are free in love, knowing that while we may continue sinning and have struggles, God still loves us and we still love Him.
“Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?” The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Corinthians 15:55-57)
Now, I'm feeling a bit Jac-like in stating this, if you or anyone else here believes the Law obligates us once we are Christian, then you have a different Gospel to what I believe. I couldn't be more firm on this point. If we're obligated to keep God's laws, or even try to keep God's laws after coming to Christ, then we're no better off than the many other religions out there trying to cleanse themselves through their strange rites and rituals. The meaning of freedom in Christ is lost; the value of our love for God coming from our own hearts is robbed.
If you want to call G-d's festivals weird or wacky... That is fine by me k. We follow because we need direction in our lives... We obey because we want to... We want to be separate from the world and be united under Him...
John 14:15 “
If you love me, you will keep my commands;
John 14:21
Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me, and the one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and reveal myself to him.”
Kurieuo wrote:If you love to worship on a Saturday, great. If you love to worship on a Sunday, cool. If you love to worship on a Monday because you work Saturday and Sunday's, no problem. If in your mind you cringed or thought "o-ohhh" as though there was something wrong with the last, then you may have problems accepting the freedom we now have in Christ. A freedom based upon the law of love upon which the Sabbath itself hangs, and which is thereby fulfilled regardless of what day one worships God out of their love for Him.
Yes.. I believe we want to worship on a certain day so that it creates unity in the body of Christ. If we pick and choose our own days... That creates division.. So if you want to choose and make up your own ways, again it's fine be me.. Your choice.