Facebook atheists are at it again!

[Stygian]

I've seen this a couple times in the last week:

Has anybody some information that might correct some of the claims made here?

[domokunrox]

I'll let you guys go for it.

I do however want to point out that the person who authored it is quite an imbecile. Bats are not birds. They are in fact the only mammals who have the ability to fly. *shakes head* and they say we don't pay attention in science class...

[Icthus]

I'll let you guys go for it.

I do however want to point out that the person who authored it is quite an imbecile. Bats are not birds. They are in fact the only mammals who have the ability to fly. *shakes head* and they say we don't pay attention in science class...

I don't think the person who made this thought bats were birds; they thought the Bible calls them birds mistakenly. Even so, this is a major blunder on their part. Ancient Hebrew didn't possess, for obvious reasons, words representative of modern taxonomy. The Hebrew word translated "bird" is not equivalent to the English word "bird" and includes essentially anything that flies, including insects. It's a very silly mistake that just goes to show how poorly thought out this chart is.

I don't have time to go through the whole thing, but most of these objections can be summed up as exegetical errors (such as saying that Jesus came to break up families) or unfair wording (such as putting "the punishment should fit the crime" against the concept of Hell without demonstrating that Hell is an unfitting punishment. Some are much sillier than others though.

[PaulSacramento]

Who ever wrote has a very childish understanding of theology.
EX: Christ saying that he was bringing a sword and going to cause conflict was Christ prophesying about what would happen between His Jewish followers and their family members, what did happen of course BUT what was NOT instigated by His followers, but by the Jewish establishments of that time.
EX: the bible does NOT stated that it is right to sell your daughter, what it does do is have a CASUAL law that states what you must do IF you sell your daughter ( something that was going on before the Law and that was not going to stop in the that culture).
The causal laws in the OT are because of behavior that God and Moses knew wasn't going to change because of the cultural climate the Hebrews were coming from (bondage in Egypt).
These habits gradually died out because of a better understanding due to the Law and the coming of Christ and the gift of the HS but it still took centuries.

[Canuckster1127]

Some of it is an example of someone taking the literal hermeneutics employed by some Christians and using them to turn it around against them.

That's one reason why some elements of atheism, particularly New Atheists, point to the most extreme elements of Christianity and use them the characterize the whole. Of course, some Christians do the same things in reverse.

That's often why when I'm challenged by non-believers or atheists who tell me they can't believe in such a God, to tell me about the God they can't believe in and then I usually am able to tell them, I don't believe in that God either.

[MAGSolo]

Well for the sake of the OP, lets go through each one of these and get to the heart of the matter and determine what was said and what was actually meant.
Proverbs 20:30
Blows and wounds scrub away evil, and beatings purge the inmost being.
What does this verse mean?

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

Proverbs 20:30
Blows and wounds scrub away evil, and beatings purge the inmost being.
What does this verse mean?

The Bible doesn't promote evil or contradict itself. If a hasty reading of any verse makes it appear as if the Bible is promoting evil or contradicting itself, you can be sure that the problem comes from an incomplete understanding.

To answer your question, Pr 20:30 is in line with other verses such as Ps 94:12, Pr 3:11, 12, Jn 15:2, and others which speak of God's disciplining of those whom He has chosen. Another way you can understand this verse is to imagine that you have a splinter in your hand. Getting the splinter out will cause even more pain but the end result will be for the best. Or...if you have cancer, you may have to go through radiation or chemotherapy. Both of these will make you feel even sicker than the cancer but the end result will be the healing of your body.

Succinctly, discipline and affliction are some of the tools God uses to make us fit for His service.

Well for the sake of the OP, lets go through each one of these and get to the heart of the matter and determine what was said and what was actually meant.

There is no need to go through each verse the atheist author posted on his table. You - you - would learn far more if you attempted to resolve these apparent discrepancies yourself. For me or for others to solve them for you would be a waste of our time and yours. If you do it yourself, you will learn. If we do it for you, you will remain dependent and refractory.

I'm willing to help & teach you but you have to be willing to do the work yourself.

FL

[MAGSolo]

My concern was for the original poster stygian who asked if anyone had any information that would correct the claims that were made. So far it doesnt look like you guys have been very helpful to him so i figured by discussing them each individually it would help clear up the issues he is having. So the first one says that blows and wounds remove evil and that beatings purge the inmost person. You say that it means that discipline and affliction are some of the tools that God uses to make us fit for service. When you say discipline and affliction, what specifically do you mean as it relates specifically to that verse where it says that beatings purge the inmost person? What manner of discipline are you talking about?

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

My concern was for the original poster stygian who asked if anyone had any information that would correct the claims that were made. So far it doesnt look like you guys have been very helpful to him so i figured by discussing them each individually it would help clear up the issues he is having.

Stygian can use the same principles I outlined for you in figuring out what the verses in the chart mean. This is pretty basic stuff...it isn't rocket surgery!

You say that it means that discipline and affliction are some of the tools that God uses to make us fit for service. When you say discipline and affliction, what specifically do you mean as it relates specifically to that verse where it says that beatings purge the inmost person? What manner of discipline are you talking about?

I'm talking about any manner of discipline God may choose to use: it could be illness, injury, bankrupcy, mugging...and whatever else may come a believer's way. (There is a popular secular saying that parallels this idea: Whatever doesn't kill you makes you strong.) A beating is something that hurts you and can appear unfair and illegitimate to the person receiving the beating. Any correction by a father will be seen as hurtful to his child, and the child will probably resent it.

Ultimately, the correction is for the good of the child.

Now, don't trip over the flowers in the carpet. Move on! ...figure the next one out for yourself. What does Lev 25:44-46 actually say?

FL

[MAGSolo]

Not so fast. Why does the verse say that beating purge the inmost being? Why use the words blows, wounds, and beatings if thats not the message God was actually trying to get across?

[PaulSacramento]

The various books and letters of the bible may have been written FOR us but they were NOT written too Us.
What would a person of THAT time reading THAT verse in the context of THEIR culture, understand what was being stated?

[MAGSolo]

idk. What would they understand?

[PaulSacramento]

idk. What would they understand?

They would understand based on their cultural context.
Those verses were written for Israel under specific contexts and conditions.
IN a culture where physical punishment is viewed as correct and right, even as a tool for "forming character", these words would be viewed in a far different way than in a culture that viewed ANY type of physical violence as taboo.

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

Why does the verse say that beating purge the inmost being? Why use the words blows, wounds, and beatings if thats not the message God was actually trying to get across?

I've already explained that. That is the message God is getting accross. Scroll up and read my 2 previous posts on Pr 20:30. Why are you having so much trouble understanding? Is English your mother tongue or is it an alternate language for you? You do not have to agree with everything the Bible says; as an atheist, that is impossible for you. The point here is to understand difficult passages.

Now, move on and stay focused. How do you read Lev 25:44-46?

FL

[MAGSolo]

So the first point made that violence (beatings) cleanses evil is correct then? That is indeed what the bible is saying? I just want to make sure we are clear on that before we move on.