B. W. wrote:1stjohn0666,
Yes and the Rabbinic Jews Jesus spoke too were Unitarian too... and this Speaks volumes...
God’s true from is unlike anything we can imagine in order for there to be 'None like God' in the absolute sense. Best we can do is not to make His oneness of being like anything on earth or even ourselves. Jesus spoke regarding God as Spirit. God’s spiritual essence, we can only gain a dim glimpse of but from the bible He reveals that His One essence has three self existing functions which he reveals to humanity individually. Each of these has their own attributes, which we call persons which form God’s essence and due to the self existing nature of God himself each are self existingly unique.
I like the water analogy CARM uses to help grasp the Nature of God. Think of God’s essence as a large body of water (the Father). What proceeds from the water is Ice and Vapor. Both are the same substance, yet, each is distinct and different. Each has certain functions. For example Ice can break rocks and Vapor can spread life giving water to far off places. So if you try to grasp the oneness of God that way, you’ll see why Jesus is called the Word (logos) who gives life to the world and the Holy Spirit (the power to shape life).
Jesus did say that He and the Holy Spirit proceed forth from God (the Father) to do the Will of the Father. Due to God’s self existing nature, these functionaries likewise are self existing containing the same essence as the Father, yet, each, living persons within one being. That is why the metaphor of the arm of the Lord, or Malak (Messenger), or the pillar of Fire and the Cloud are used to describe God in the OT.
I should correct you on the use of "malak" which means king, or are you trying to say "melek" which means to counsel, advise. Please use the proper Hebrew word as king does not mean messenger.
B. W. wrote: Next, God, in his full one nature is Holy. So God reveals Himself according to his self existing nature in manner that sinful unholy human beings are not consumed in the theophanies in which he appears in the OT as three men to Abraham, or as the Malak YHWH to Moses, and to Manoah’s and his wife, to the 70 elders of Israel who dined with the Lord in Exodus, and Jacob, etc,,.
Many people have seen God "in a veiled" sense, but NEVER the face of God. Moses saw Gods feet, hand, and back.
coming to Earth from heaven is more of modalism, than the trinitarian position.B. W. wrote:From the bible, it fully appears that the people of old understood this and longed for YHWH – the Arm – The Malek YHWH – to appear as a Son to Man in order to reconcile the divide between God and man – so we can become adopted sons/daughters to God. This one was prophesied about in the bible – the incarnation of the Malek/Arm/Word/Task bearing YHWH coming in human form as the Messiah (God and man reconciled) to save and seal, justly, people who place their trust in such Grace God shown to mankind – coming as one of us to expose sin, conquer it, and send forth the Holy Spirit to take up living residence to seal such believers forever his own special people.
The holy spirit is reflective of Personality, and that Personality can be the Father’s or the Son’s. The spirit of God is a way of referring to YHWH in action. Consequently, criticizing His spirit is the same as criticizing God Himself. God’s spirit is not a person, though it is very personal, it is the very self-expression of YHWH, the one God Deut 4:35, 39; 6:4. The spirit is not a person but the projection of a person.B. W. wrote:Now on to you comment to me concerning the Holy Spirit:
Yes, the Holy Spirit is a living person, as is Jesus the Son, each carry out the purposes of the Father’s will according to their own shared self existing nature and functions. You see, we do not worship three separate gods or Baptize into three separate gods but rather One God, as he reveals himself to be.
So the Holy Spirit is not a person to you? Then what is he to You?
If this "I am" statement is to be like Exo 3:14, it does NOT read "eyah asher eyah" nor the Greek rendering "ego eimi ho on" So what you are saying is misleading.B. W. wrote:Look at how God speaks in the verses below and his own usage of speech…
Isa 48:16, 17, "Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, I was there. And now the Lord GOD (Adonai Elohim) and His Spirit Have sent Me. 17 Thus says (YHWH) the LORD, your Redeemer, The Holy One of Israel: "I am (YHWH) the LORD your God (Elohim), Who teaches you to profit, Who leads you by the way you should go.." NKJV
Notice the ‘I am’ statement in verse 17 and it actually reads I AM YHWH… it is an I AM statement. Jesus spoke that way in John 8:56, 57, 58c and as well in Exodus 3:14.
The Hebrew word in vs. 17 for what you claim is the same as Exo 3:14, why is the word "ani" or in English "I". If the Greek writers were "crystal" that Jesus used "eyah asher eyah" or maybe even "ani hu" (which means simply "I am") and has no foundation for Exo 3:14!! The Greek writers would have put in John 8:58 "ego eimi ho on" so to us it would be "crystal"
Here are the same verses in layman Hebrew term names used for God
vs 17 would be rendered in English "I YHWH" not (I am) in reference to Exo 3:14 YHWH"B. W. wrote: Isa 48:16, 17, "Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, I was there. And now the Adonai Elohim and His Spirit Have sent Me. 17 Thus says YHWH, your Redeemer, The Holy One of Israel: "I Am YHWH your Elohim, Who teaches you to profit, Who leads you by the way you should go.." NKJV
What do you see?
