1stjohn0666 wrote:PaulSacramento wrote:1stjohn0666 wrote:PaulSacramento wrote:1stjohn0666 wrote:
Scripture never presents a literal preexisting Jesus.
Has any one read the birth narratives in Matt an Luke? So an so begat so and so...etc. Begotten means to come into existence. How did all of us get here? Were we NOT begotten by our parents? Did we just "poof" here...LOL?
So there was NO pre-existing Christ in any form?
I believe that our Messiah was in the mind and plan of God "this is the preexisting" that I hold as true. I do not believe that Jesus was hanging out in heaven and then poofed into a womb to become a helpless, needy baby.
So, there was no word of God or pre-existing Son of God in any form ( other than in God's mine) until Jesus was born?
The Father who is the "only true God" John 17:3 as said by Jesus, put His words in the sons mouth just as was prophesied and fulfilled here are the scrips.
Deut 18:15-18; Isa 51:16; Acts 3:20-26.
I should give you a challenge, please find any lexicon on the planet Earth that defines the word "LOGOS" as a person. If you do please give the resource.
If you want you can even go to the Hebrew and see if the word "DAVAR" means a person. Websters "WORD" does not define "word" as a person. God the Fathers word always was. When Jesus was born that is when his existence began, and had the "words" of his Father who is Jesus' God put in his mouth.
John, 20 seconds of searching gave me this:
http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons ... logos.html
Strongs is a respected Lexicon. Look near the bottom. I put it in red for you.
Bible Study ToolsOur LibraryLexiconsNew Testament Greek LexiconNew Testament Greek Lexicon - New American StandardLogos
Logos
The NAS New Testament Greek Lexicon
Strong's Number: 3056
Original Word Word Origin
logoß from (3004)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Logos 4:69,505
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
log'-os Noun Masculine
Definition
of speech
a word, uttered by a living voice, embodies a conception or idea
what someone has said
a word
the sayings of God
decree, mandate or order
of the moral precepts given by God
Old Testament prophecy given by the prophets
what is declared, a thought, declaration, aphorism, a weighty saying, a dictum, a maxim
discourse
the act of speaking, speech
the faculty of speech, skill and practice in speaking
a kind or style of speaking
a continuous speaking discourse - instruction
doctrine, teaching
anything reported in speech; a narration, narrative
matter under discussion, thing spoken of, affair, a matter in dispute, case, suit at law
the thing spoken of or talked about; event, deed
its use as respect to the MIND alone
reason, the mental faculty of thinking, meditating, reasoning, calculating
account, i.e. regard, consideration
account, i.e. reckoning, score
account, i.e. answer or explanation in reference to judgment
relation, i.e. with whom as judge we stand in relation
reason would
reason, cause, ground
In John, denotes the essential Word of God, Jesus Christ, the personal wisdom and power in union with God, his minister in creation and government of the universe, the cause of all the world's life both physical and ethical, which for the procurement of man's salvation put on human nature in the person of Jesus the Messiah, the second person in the Godhead, and shone forth conspicuously from His words and deeds.
A Greek philosopher named Heraclitus first used the term Logos around600 B.C. to designate the divine reason or plan which coordinates achanging universe. This word was well suited to John's purpose inJohn 1.
John, you keep denying the only God who can save you.
