Are you a sincere seeker who has questions about Christianity, or a Christian with doubts about your faith? Post them here to receive a thoughtful response.
Maybe some people think God deliberately makes it impossible for some things to be proven because you can't believe have much faith in something if you know it. At least I have gotten the impression some people think that even if nobody actually does.
Do you think that if the Shroud of Turin is Jesus's shroud God would keep us from knowing that? Whether it is or is not but is old enough to be, would God keep us from even knowing that?
If the Shroud of Turin is even old enough, and it could be proved, it would mean a great deal to me.
Funny, when its obviously older than photography it was "forged" to look like a photographs negative
ultimate777 wrote:Maybe some people think God deliberately makes it impossible for some things to be proven because you can't believe have much faith in something if you know it. At least I have gotten the impression some people think that even if nobody actually does.
Do you think that if the Shroud of Turin is Jesus's shroud God would keep us from knowing that? Whether it is or is not but is old enough to be, would God keep us from even knowing that?
If the Shroud of Turin is even old enough, and it could be proved, it would mean a great deal to me.
Funny, when its obviously older than photography it was "forged" to look like a photographs negative
ultimate777 wrote:Maybe some people think God deliberately makes it impossible for some things to be proven because you can't believe have much faith in something if you know it. At least I have gotten the impression some people think that even if nobody actually does.
Do you think that if the Shroud of Turin is Jesus's shroud God would keep us from knowing that? Whether it is or is not but is old enough to be, would God keep us from even knowing that?
If the Shroud of Turin is even old enough, and it could be proved, it would mean a great deal to me.
Funny, when its obviously older than photography it was "forged" to look like a photographs negative
Ultimate, as the thread shows there is a lot more evidence for the authenticity of the shroud then the photonegative of the image, lots more.
I believe that God could give us many good evidences for him, but he will not give absolute proof, for if he did faith would no longer be necessary, and without Faith, free will is gone and when free will is gone love is also gone.
Remember that even in Christ's time there were people that personally witnessed his miracles yet still chose to not believe.
The pharasees even saw them but attributed them to Satan.
I personally believe that it's a gift from God for the modern doubting Thomas age. It is in line with Gids mercy and co passion just as he let Thomas touch and handle him .
ultimate777 wrote:Maybe some people think God deliberately makes it impossible for some things to be proven because you can't believe have much faith in something if you know it. At least I have gotten the impression some people think that even if nobody actually does.
Do you think that if the Shroud of Turin is Jesus's shroud God would keep us from knowing that? Whether it is or is not but is old enough to be, would God keep us from even knowing that?
If the Shroud of Turin is even old enough, and it could be proved, it would mean a great deal to me.
Funny, when its obviously older than photography it was "forged" to look like a photographs negative
I did not know about it, I'll look into it. It was, however, just the best example I could come up with on a concern of mine, the possibility God might deliberately hide or prevent hard evidence to make us take some things on faith.
ultimate777 wrote:Maybe some people think God deliberately makes it impossible for some things to be proven because you can't believe have much faith in something if you know it. At least I have gotten the impression some people think that even if nobody actually does.
Do you think that if the Shroud of Turin is Jesus's shroud God would keep us from knowing that? Whether it is or is not but is old enough to be, would God keep us from even knowing that?
If the Shroud of Turin is even old enough, and it could be proved, it would mean a great deal to me.
Funny, when its obviously older than photography it was "forged" to look like a photographs negative
Ultimate, as the thread shows there is a lot more evidence for the authenticity of the shroud then the photonegative of the image, lots more.
I believe that God could give us many good evidences for him, but he will not give absolute proof, for if he did faith would no longer be necessary, and without Faith, free will is gone and when free will is gone love is also gone.
Remember that even in Christ's time there were people that personally witnessed his miracles yet still chose to not believe.
The pharasees even saw them but attributed them to Satan.
I personally believe that it's a gift from God for the modern doubting Thomas age. It is in line with Gids mercy and co passion just as he let Thomas touch and handle him .
There you are, living proof that I was not imagining things. Some people think just like I thought they think, though they may not bring the Shroud into it. So absolute proof is the enemy of faith? Could be. Prove to me you actually exist and are not just my imagination? Now how about something close to absolute proof but not quite, such as the evidence I am not imagining you?
I have always thought the Biblical meaning of faith meant "trusting or committing to something/someone". This is apposed to the idea that faith is a sort of blind leap, belief without proof, or a jump in the dark which many Christians think faith is.
You ask a Christian: Why do you believe in Christ? Or why do you believe in God? And the usual answer is "Well I just have faith" Aka they have no substantive answer.
But going back to your question, I think it's possible that God limits or restricts the evidence of Himself because that may actually help people come to Him. God, in His omniscience, may know that a given world in which there is X amount of evidence would lead more people to salvation than a world in which there is Y amount of proof.
Or maybe less evidence leads to people who have more sincere relationships with God. Or perhaps too much evidence would take away from our free-will.
And at the end of the day there is enough evidence (in my opinion) for belief in God and Christianity
I do not feel obliged to believe that same God who endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect had intended for us to forgo their use.
-Galileo Galilei What comes into our minds when we think about God, is the most important thing about us.
-A.W. Tozer
SOA,
I'm pretty much with you. Although I would say, "trusting or entrusting ourselves to something/someone."
Our committment isn't worth anything. But God's committment is worth everything. Let's entrust ourselves to that and nothing else, amen!
Maybe some people think God deliberately makes it impossible for some things to be proven because you can't believe have much faith in something if you know it. At least I have gotten the impression some people think that even if nobody actually does.
In turn, I don't follow 777's line of thinking. Faith is not belief in the absense of evidence, but faith in the evidence. I don't think God is manipulating evidence, so that we can have faith.
-“The Bible treated allegorically becomes putty in the hands of the exegete.” John Walvoord
"I'm not saying scientists don't overstate their results. They do. And it's understandable, too...If you spend years working toward a certain goal and make no progress, of course you are going to spin your results in a positive light." Ivellious
jlay wrote:SOA,
I'm pretty much with you. Although I would say, "trusting or entrusting ourselves to something/someone."
Our committment isn't worth anything. But God's committment is worth everything. Let's entrust ourselves to that and nothing else, amen!
Maybe some people think God deliberately makes it impossible for some things to be proven because you can't believe have much faith in something if you know it. At least I have gotten the impression some people think that even if nobody actually does.
In turn, I don't follow 777's line of thinking. Faith is not belief in the absense of evidence, but faith in the evidence. I don't think God is manipulating evidence, so that we can have faith.
I think we more or less have the same definition. I do think the process of salvation is a two way street. It seems (from scripture) that God calls/comes to us and we, in turn, believe/trust Him. God does the saving but we do the trusting.
Some examples would be John 3:16, 3:36, 4:14, 5:24, Acts 13:39, Romans 10:9 etc Here I think you see our part in having faith in God and the importance of it.
So I think our commitment is worth something in the process
I do not feel obliged to believe that same God who endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect had intended for us to forgo their use.
-Galileo Galilei What comes into our minds when we think about God, is the most important thing about us.
-A.W. Tozer
