Ways to help out my apologist friend.

[DRDS]

Hey everyone, for those of you who don't already know about the apologist friend of mine who I was asking for prayer last week, he is currently needing some help with the situation he is in. His full name is Paul Derengowski and he's out of Texas.

Now I'm don't know a ton about the details surrounding his situation. But what I know is he's involved in apologetics. He also used to work as a teacher at Terrant County College . And what got him into the situation he is in was he angered some muslim students who didn't like him expressing his views of islam.

They ended up complaining to the college administrators and basically over time Paul ended up resigning from his teaching position.
Here is some more in depth background information on this whole issue. It all started over a year ago.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2011/11 ... am-a-cult/

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atla ... ssor-.html

Also, here is a link to Paul's apologetics website.

http://capro.info/CAPRO%20Home/About_CAPRO.html

And his blog that goes even more indepth about his ongoing issues with this mess.

http://derengowski.wordpress.com/tag/paul-derengowski/

He's been trying for quite sometime to get his job back and to settle legal issues from this whole thing. He's lately been trying to get the folks at ACLJ to represent him and so far they have declined. But he hopes that if more people can contact them and express them views of support for him then hopfully he can get the help he very much needs.

Here is how you can do that. This is from Paul's facebook page and feel free to add Paul on fb you want to.
American Center for Law and Justice
P.O. Box 90555
Washington, DC 20090-0555
1-800-296-4529
Legal Helpline Phone: 757-226-2489
Legal Helpline Fax: 757-226-2836
Member Services: 757-802-9160
Radio call-in number: 1-800-684-3110 (from 12-12:30 PM EST/EDT.)
Petition call-in number: 1-877-989-2255

When you call or write, make sure to mention case 7BEMMM3 and to then, let them know that you're familiar with the case and that you would like the ACLJ to represent Paul and his rights as a professor.

That what Terrant County College did was wrong and that you would like to see me either restored as a professor or that Terrant County College pay restitution for its malfeasance for mishandling Paul's case.

He's wanting as many people as possible to do that and he just wants news about his situation to be known to more people everywhere on the web. So if you all could spread the word about it like what I'm doing that would be great as well.

But anyways, I certainly hope things will turn around for him, he's tried so many things but so far luck hasn't gone his way. I just hope he can get this worked out. But anyways, thank you all for your time.

[Ivellious]

In all seriousness and honesty, I'm kind of confused by exactly what happened here, and I can't help but feel like these articles are not giving a full description of what occurred. Here is what I gathered from reading through these:

A teacher at a public community college was teaching a class on world religions. He made some comments about Islam that some students found to be either offensive or unfounded, and when administrators told him to stop doing so, he refused, leading to a pseudo-resignation (I'm guessing he was more likely forced out than quit of his own free will). Now he wants his job back. I'm not entirely sure what "legal issues" have come up, unless he is suing the school for damages.

Before I go on talking about this, do I have this right? I don't want to comment on an issue that I don't actually understand.

[DRDS]

I don't think giving you anymore info will help, since you are an atheist and everything I assume you care little to nothing as far as helping a follower of Christ out. So please, stop your trolling and go back to promoting darwinism or Richard Dawkins or something.

[Ivellious]

Huh. Well, you don't have to be an ass about it. Though you certainly got one thing right...You "assume" everything about me based on the fact that I'm not a Christian, and get literally everything else wrong. So, just for kicks and giggles, let me set you straight. It might not fix your pretentious attitude toward me, but that's not my problem.

First, I'm not an atheist. I don't explicitly believe that God doesn't exist. I just don't follow any religious belief. I guess some people would call me agnostic, so that's typically what I identify as.

Second, I'm not trolling. You think the moderators would let me simply troll this board to the tune of nearly 1,000 posts? Doubtful. I was legitimately curious because this story just doesn't make sense to me, or at least why it's a big deal.

Third, I don't like Richard Dawkins. He's a brilliant biologist, and his books on biology and evolution are great, especially how they convey information to people without much background on the topic. However, I have made it very clear that I very much dislike his style when it comes to religion. I find his message to be insensitive and rude and unnecessarily insulting to religious folk, so I certainly don't promote his religious views in the least.

Fourth, I have no issues helping out people of any faith (or lack thereof). Just because you might spit on atheists and Muslims doesn't mean I do the same to people I disagree with. Kinda funny how that whole tolerance thing isn't always a two-way deal.

And finally, I'm not even sure what this apologist guy is doing teaching in the first place. If he wants to trash other people for a living, he should stick to blogging, not trying to teach at a public school. He clearly violated the rules of his school and, well, any other public school out there. He should just find another line of work if he can't deal with working with people who don't share his views.

[neo-x]

I don't understand why would your friend be not gracious enough to keep his opinions of Islam to himself.
I read the articles you cited. I read his blog. I sympathize with him on many different levels. First I know what Muslims generally behave like when they are confronted about their religion. just 2 weeks ago, a Muslim mob set 100 houses on fire in my city over a blasphemy feud.

It is apparent that he hates Islam. There is no going around that. He claims it is based on evidence and research. The Koran's language is harsh and the punishments in its time were the most severe. In a muslim society, speaking against their prophet means "death" because you are likely to get a few extremists anywhere. Those are their terms their culture and there is absolutely wrong element in there. But please remember, we were not much different 500 years ago either.

Islam-o-phobia is very popular in the west. While it is based on some truth. It is not representing the entire truth.

In Pakistan, in our education system. Christianity is called a cult, Kuffer, we are called Kafars. Our school text books say that Christianity and the Bible was extensively modified to suit their modern shapes. That we are changed, we are not representing God anymore. Our text books also said that Monkeys and pigs are the degenerate shapes of Jews and Christians who went away from the truth of Allah. You think I ever enjoyed my school, where we were forced to recite koranic versus on daily basis. As a Christian you feel violated. Because you are minority, you don't get to question them.

What I want to tell is that, NO ONE LIKES THEIR RELIGION BEING CALLED A CULT. NO ONE! Period. Especially the second largest religion in the world today.

The point is not whether they are cult or not, but what you hope to achieve by telling them of your views and obvious dislike, this bluntly. Love is the only force which can turn an enemy to a friend. And whether someone likes it or not, violence and hatred just circles back and doubles up.

Your friend is an apologist, he should represent the love of Christ, not a revengeful attitude about 9/11. All Muslims in the world are not responsible for it. Terrorists are. They mask and guise it in religion and they fool the common man.

Anyway, I just think your friend should be careful as an apologist. I am no one relevant here but I would say that if you want to show Muslims why they are wrong...talking against their beliefs with dislike or hatred or anger, even if it is presented as a cold academic thought, is sure not going to get the point across.

[RickD]

Neo-x wrote:
The point is not whether they are cult or not, but what you hope to achieve by telling them of your views and obvious dislike, this bluntly. Love is the only force which can turn an enemy to a friend. And whether someone likes it or not, violence and hatred just circles back and doubles up.

Your friend is an apologist, he should represent the love of Christ, not a revengeful attitude about 9/11. All Muslims in the world are not responsible for it. Terrorists are. They mask and guise it in religion and they fool the common man.

DRDS,

You may not like to hear this, but Neo is right. I looked through the links you provided, including your friend's website, and I noticed something. There is no love. Where's the love in what he's preaching and teaching? While reading your friend's website, this scripture came to mind:

1 Corinthians 13:1-3

1If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.

If your friend's motivation in being an apologist, is ultimately to show others who Christ is, then he must show them the love of Christ.

[DRDS]

Fine! Who cares! I'll just stop helping him. Maybe that's why he can't get any help with the efforts he has tried. You all talk about how he's not loving enough. Well, you all need to take a look at yourselves as well. You all act hateful towards me and bash me every time I try to help someone out. You all try to turn all my well meaning threads into heated debates. Back when I was requesting prayer for him you all just want to turn even that into a heated debate! You all act hateful and call it love and then bash others for not acting loving enough to your own hypocritical standards!

[RickD]

DRDS wrote:
Fine! Who cares! I'll just stop helping him. Maybe that's why he can't get any help with the efforts he has tried. You all talk about how he's not loving enough. Well, you all need to take a look at yourselves as well.

Help isn't always giving someone what he wants. Being a true friend and helping a true friend, sometimes means we tell him what he needs to hear. And that isn't always what one wants to hear. I look at myself constantly, DRDS. I fail miserably too much. We all do. But, we need to listen to others who are trying to help us. Even when it's difficult to hear what we need to hear.

You all act hateful towards me and bash me every time I try to help someone out. You all try to turn all my well meaning threads into heated debates.

There's no hate from me, DRDS. I understand you are meaning well. Ask God to show you if there's any truth to what we're saying. He will show you. I understand from experience, that it's difficult to really hear what we need to hear. It's not always what we want to hear.

Back when I was requesting prayer for him you all just want to turn even that into a heated debate! You all act hateful and call it love and then bash others for not acting loving enough to your own hypocritical standards!

DRDS,
I didn't see what they wrote as a heated debate. I know it's difficult for you to see, but they were trying to help you and your friend.

Please pray about this. God knows your heart. If you are open, He will lead you.

[B. W.]

Islam is serious and it's goal is world submission (domination). Don't be fooled by it. A tree is known by its fruit.

Here is an example below that mirrors some of the observations and research into Islam I have discovered.

Sadly, this is not a peaceful religion. There are several methods of Islamic invasion - first - establish large populations in a country, win hearts and minds to accept and defend Muslims by making them victims, slowly establish it as a norm and put your people in power of Government, if this fails - direct warfare to entice fear and helplessness to all who oppose Islam. Purpose of Islam - Sharia Law - to govern the world... There is more but that is a broad brushed statement. This type of warfare is not limited to direct war attacks alone but also includes a war waged based on diversity and fairness - pitting western fairness/mercy, rightness, diversity, concepts against themselves to make slow methodical generational advances into another countries culture. This is done to garner support of disbelief that peace loving Muslims could ever possibly be used as stooges for a geo-religious / political leadership bent toward world domination.

Eccl chapter three is also in the bible and we need to realize that the season for turning the other check may be over in some cases. If folks want to keep turning the other check - well - implement Sharia Law now and get it over with in the USA - be good to them too as they deal heavy handed against you - hmmm I think we need wisdom regarding some matters. Paint a cartoon lampooning Christ and you gain a yawn, do one about Islam - get killed or house burned down. Something is not right with this equation.

WHAT IS AN INFIDEL?

This is a true story and the author, Rick Mathes, is a well-known Leader in prison ministry

******************************

The man who walks with
God always gets to his destination. If you have a pulse you
have a purpose.


The Muslim religion is the fastest growing religion per capita in the United States
especially in the minority races!!

Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining
by state prison security clearance..

During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers
representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths , who each
explained their beliefs.

I was particularly interested in what the Islamic had to say. The Muslim gave a
great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a video.
After the presentations, time was provided for questions and
answers then it was my turn. I directed my question to the Muslim
and asked:

'Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams and clerics of
Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels
of the world and, that by killing an infidel, (which is a command
to all Muslims) they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's
the case, can you give me the definition of an infidel?'


There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation, he
replied, ' Non-believers! ' I responded, 'So, let me make sure I have this straight.
All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so
they can have a place in heaven. Is that correct?'


The expression on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of a
little boy who had just been caught with his hand in the cookie jar. He
sheepishly replied, 'Yes.'

I then stated, 'Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine The Pope commanding
all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr. Stanley ordering all Protestants to do the
same in order to guarantee them a place in heaven!'

The Muslim was speechless! I continued, 'I also have a problem with being
your friend when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me!

Let me ask you a question:

Would you rather have your Allah, who tells you to kill me in order for you to go
to heaven, or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to
heaven and He wants you to be there with me?'


You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head in shame.

Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of the 'Diversification'
training seminar were not happy with my way of dealing with the Islamic
Imam, and exposing the truth about the Muslims' beliefs.


In twenty years there will be enough Muslim voters in the U.S. To elect the
President!

[neo-x]

Fine! Who cares! I'll just stop helping him. Maybe that's why he can't get any help with the efforts he has tried. You all talk about how he's not loving enough. Well, you all need to take a look at yourselves as well. You all act hateful towards me and bash me every time I try to help someone out. You all try to turn all my well meaning threads into heated debates. Back when I was requesting prayer for him you all just want to turn even that into a heated debate! You all act hateful and call it love and then bash others for not acting loving enough to your own hypocritical standards!

This is extremely wrong DRDS and it pains me that you are not seeing the obvious. The only guy who was rude and bashing in your thread is you. You replied rudely to Ivelious even though he was only asking politely for your permission to comment on the subject. You treated him the same way a trash talking atheist would treat you. You are an atheist, what do you know etc etc.

And who turned your thread into a heated debate? no one. I personally apologized to you because you were so offended that you had the thread locked. How is that bashful and hateful on my part?

People with even ridiculous attitudes are not bashed here. take magsolo for example. If he was a theist and on an atheist forum, he wouldn't have been able to count the times he would be the butt of a joke every time he posted. The only guy who was a made a little fun of, was a flat-earther named Eric and FWIW, I even defended him on that one.

You can call me hypocritical but believe me, I look at myself before I look at others. And I was seriously disappointed how you treated Ivelious, whom I know from personal conversations and as a fellow poster on this board, to be very respectful and intelligent.

You want to help your friend, help him realize his mistake. You are baby-sitting his mistake and you are defending him on that one. No one that I know of, told you to "not to help your friend". Correction and sweet-talking seldom go hand in hand, my friend. I am afraid though,that you don't agree with us that he is wrong. I guess that is the reason you see our suggestions as hateful. Perhaps you don't see that as a mistake, I am not sure. Anyway your friend needs help and he needs counselling too. But he also needs to know he is wrong and its time for some change. If I could I would tell him this with a hug but I can't. So if you can, do it.

[neo-x]

In twenty years there will be enough Muslim voters in the U.S. To elect the
President!

By law, a Christian can not rule an Islamic state. That means that my kids and future generations can never be given a fair chance in the Pakistani law and culture. Does that sound discriminating? Do you know the reason?

It is the same one in logic that the author of this quote is advocating for. The muslims say the same thing...imagine a Christian take the leadership of mulsim country, wouldn't that be insanely horrible?. That is the fear they have. A fear the majority has of a minority. If a Christian rules muslims he will deprive them of their freedom of religion and other things. And for this reason by law, muslims don't allow minorities to be selected for state posts.

He is saying the same thing, imagine a muslim taking over a Christian-or semi Christian nation, wouldn't that be horrible? You do not know where that may lead, that is an understandable fear, but it is still misplaced in my humble opinion. Take Dr. Abdul Salam, the former muslim president of India, a muslim who presided a Hindu nation for 8 years, and in his time, India only prospered.

And though there are many things wrong with Islam, I can not in any way support any kind of unjustified discrimination because I am unjustly discriminated daily for the same reasons. Not all muslims want to kill, not all muslims would take the quranic verses to kill as pertaining to the modern age. As it is with us in Christianity, Islam has many faces, many sects. It is not all barbaric and savage and brutal. No more than Westbro Baptists are representatives of us, that Alqaeda and other extremists are representative of muslims.

Generally speaking, we have very broad brushes:
Muslims are terrorists
Asians are poor and dumb
Arabs are rich, feudal lords
Russians are angry and tall.
Americans are drunkards and pork eaters
Sikhs are idiots
Afghans are homosexuals
Eastern women are bonded in chains if they obey their husbands
Western women have so much freedom that divorce rates are off the charts.
etc etc

A lot of people including me, have a very one sided view of ethnicity and races, nations and cultures. Sometimes it helps to get to know better about these things. And you know about your country and its politics, more than me, I would say you may know better on the subject. I just know that by fighting with each other, we will gain nothing.

[1over137]

And I was seriously disappointed how you treated Ivelious, whom I know from personal conversations and as a fellow poster on this board, to be very respectful and intelligent.

I was surprised too.