666 or 616

[luigi]

The article below I found at the Wikipedia site "Number of the Beast".

In May 2005, it was reported that scholars at Oxford University using advanced imaging techniques had been able to read illegible portions of the earliest known record of the Book of Revelation, from the Oxyrhynchus site, Papyrus 115 or p115, dating to the mid to late third century. The fragment gives the Number of the Beast as 616 (chi, iota, stigma), rather than the majority text 666 (chi, xi, stigma). The other early witness Codex Ephraemi Rescriptus (C) has it writtten in full: hexakosisi deka hex (lit. six hundred sixteen). ("Number of the Beast" 2009).

I invite anyone out there to tell me what they think about this.

[theophilus]

This really isn't a new discovery. People have known for a long time that some manuscripts have the number 616 instead of 666. A lot of Bibles have a footnote at this verse saying the number could be 616.

[luigi]

Rev 13:18 "...Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man;..."

While I think I will go with the original number of the beast (616) rather than the latter (666), which appears to me to be a transcriptional error of the original number; I think the more important issue is to see how either number (616 or 666) relates to an individual.
To do this, a definition of Number would be a good first step.
According to The New WEBSTER Encyclopedic Dictionary of the ENGLISH LANGUAGE, 1969 Edition, an original definition of "Number" is Whence, in relation to time.
An example of this can be seen in the old cliche: "His number is up," referring to an individuals time to die.
In the instance on the number of the beast, however, I believe the Whence of the man (the antichrist) refers to his appearance and not his death.

[luigi]

theophilus,

I too remember seeing a Bible some years ago that gave several different possible numbers for the beast as well as a couple of possible names.
I don't remember what Bible version that was, but I'd like to find it again to see what those choices were, and how and when they may have appeared.

[Philip]

Er, if any of us is still around then, let's just play it safe and say that any world figure that sets himself up as and claims to be God, and demands worship of all people and all religions, then I think it's safe to say that you shouldn't take or accept any mark or number representing him on your person - regardless of the exact number or as to whether it is on an ID card, a microchip, a barcode that is tattooed into the skin, or simply a mark that identifies someone as being faithful to the Antichrist. But it's not as if the beast won't step forward and many of the Scriptural "signs" that identify him won't make him obvious to those who are spiritually discerning/scripturally savvy - and well before such a mark is ever required by him. "Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes FIRST, and the man of lawlessness is revealed ..."

One of the scholars who Lee Strobel interviews in "In Search of the Real Jesus" references this, stating that the oldest manuscripts have a different number than "666." And if not "666," just think of all the bad boys who wasted a tasteless tattoo on the wrong number!

[neo-x]

Would it really matter if its 616 or 666? IMO, none. That doesn't change what he'd be upto.

[luigi]

I think that unless you have the original number of the beast that John was given, people will be wasting their time trying to figure out how an incorrect number relates to the beast.

[neo-x]

Yo don't discern the Antichrist with numbers, you do that by looking for the respective fruits and the spirit he displays.

[plummrpaul]

The reference to the number "666" in the Book of Revelation is merely God telling us that Anti- Christ will appear first, at the 6th trump,6th seal,6th vial!

[tetelesti]

First rule is to always look for where a number also appears in scripture. We know that the number "666" in Revelation is correct because we first find it in 1 Kings 10:14 "Now the weight of gold which came in to Solomon in one year was 666 talents of gold" Right after this we find King Solomon establishing an anti-christ system of government, and the establishment of an ecumenical form of worship to the many false Gods of his wives. This all ties into Revelation when the Anti-Christ will establish his man made form of government (666), and establish a one world religious system, being completely ecumenical. Don't forget the Queen of Sheba who is a picture of the Gentile church, what happens just before Solomon (Anti-Christ begins his reign) receives his 666 talents of gold? The church is raptured, 1 Kings 10:13-14 "Then she turned and went to her own land together with her servants. Now the weight of gold which came in to Solomon in one year was 666 talents of gold"