Article:The Calvinism Issue Amongst Baptists
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Philip
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Article:The Calvinism Issue Amongst Baptists
FYI: This article appeared in my newspaper today: http://www.thestate.com/2013/06/06/2805 ... hings.html
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RickD
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Re: Article:The Calvinism Issue Amongst Baptists
From this thread:http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... =2&t=38446, it seems jlay is seeing something similar. 
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
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RickD
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Re: Article:The Calvinism Issue Amongst Baptists
Philip, I think it's great that you and jlay are bringing this issue to light. 
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
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jlay
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Re: Article:The Calvinism Issue Amongst Baptists
Yes, the fact that there is a discussion at all shows there is a problem. Of course All Mohler was on the committee and he is one of the primary instigators. He is a clever man and very calculated in what he says.
-“The Bible treated allegorically becomes putty in the hands of the exegete.” John Walvoord
"I'm not saying scientists don't overstate their results. They do. And it's understandable, too...If you spend years working toward a certain goal and make no progress, of course you are going to spin your results in a positive light." Ivellious
"I'm not saying scientists don't overstate their results. They do. And it's understandable, too...If you spend years working toward a certain goal and make no progress, of course you are going to spin your results in a positive light." Ivellious
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RickD
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Re: Article:The Calvinism Issue Amongst Baptists
Jlay, since you've been involved first hand with this, what do you believe the motive behind this is? Do you think they just believe their theology is correct, and they'll use any means necessary to force it upon others? Or, is greed, manipulation, power and control involved? It seems like a well thought out plan. Not just some rogue neoCalvinists at work.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
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Philip
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Re: Article:The Calvinism Issue Amongst Baptists
And perhaps clarify the difference between NEO Calvinism and some of its other forms (like Five Point Calvinism) - is it merely a resurgence or are there other aspects/modifications?
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jlay
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Re: Article:The Calvinism Issue Amongst Baptists
If you read my paper there is a lot of details and links that discuss what exactly constitutes "New" Calvinism.
I have a friend who is traditional "Westminster" reformed and he and his pastor were excommunicated from their Presbyterian church when a group of NCs became influential. It is good that some light is being shone on this, but Mohler has to be exposed.
NCs are almost always going to be 5-pointers. But, the difference is how exclusive they see this view and how much intolerance they have towards dissenting views.
I have a friend who is traditional "Westminster" reformed and he and his pastor were excommunicated from their Presbyterian church when a group of NCs became influential. It is good that some light is being shone on this, but Mohler has to be exposed.
NCs are almost always going to be 5-pointers. But, the difference is how exclusive they see this view and how much intolerance they have towards dissenting views.
-“The Bible treated allegorically becomes putty in the hands of the exegete.” John Walvoord
"I'm not saying scientists don't overstate their results. They do. And it's understandable, too...If you spend years working toward a certain goal and make no progress, of course you are going to spin your results in a positive light." Ivellious
"I'm not saying scientists don't overstate their results. They do. And it's understandable, too...If you spend years working toward a certain goal and make no progress, of course you are going to spin your results in a positive light." Ivellious
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Philip
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Re: Article:The Calvinism Issue Amongst Baptists
This is why I don't believe those with Five Point views - those asserting/CONTINUOUSLY voicing that people are born/created either saved (The Elect) or not (the non-Elect), also meaning that certain many people were BORN so that God never meant for them to be saved to begin with nor can they even have any desire, ability or possibility to be so - and so doing worship/staying in close fellowship with those of us who believe salvation is OPEN to ALL/that God desires ALL choose life in Him (although many will refuse to and thus perish) - remaining harmonious with those of such conflicting beliefs is virtually impossible to do. This is especially true if those of extreme Calvinist/Five Point beliefs attempt to constantly push them or talk about them, or who strive to build alliances within, based upon such beliefs. Theologically/spiritually, this is oil and water. Such fellowship can only work IF such Calvinists keep their Five Point/predestination beliefs to themselves or those with opposing beliefs simply remain quiet or oblivious to them. I have found this to be very sad but true, as it is extremely difficult for those of such opposing beliefs to remain on the same page/stay harmonious. This potential for incompatibility is why one of the first questions I asked before joining our present church was about the church's doctrinal/scriptural beliefs relating to this specific issue.NCs are almost always going to be 5-pointers. But, the difference is how exclusive they see this view and how much intolerance they have towards dissenting views.