Oh no not another Trinity Thread!!!

[Danieltwotwenty]

Ok I have some questions regarding the Holy Trinity.

To give some background I have been talking with a Jewish man about why they reject the concept of the Trinity, he says that 1. God is fully knowable and there is no mystery to him (I can't remember the verse he quoted) 2. God is not divisible Deuteronomy 6:4-7 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.[a] 5 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. 6 These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts. 7 Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up.

The first part was easy because we call the the trinity the mystery of our faith he said that God is not mysterious and is fully knowable, my response was that we call it a mystery in the same way we call a mystery novel a mystery but once we have read the novel is no longer a mystery.

He accepted that part and we moved on.

The second part is more difficult, if the verse means that God is one (not divisible) then how do we explain the trinity in a way that does not make it divisible because my attempts so far have failed.
I am not even sure that this verse is even saying that God is indivisible, to me it says God is one (meaning there is only one God not many).

He says if the Father is not the same as the Son then you can draw a line between them and this makes God divisible, if we claim that we don't fully understand then God is a mystery and not fully knowable.

So how do I explain the trinity without making God indivisible?

Is God indivisible according to Duet 6:4 ?

If you need any further information please let me know.

[PeteSinCA]

Some quick thoughts before heading off to the gym (working on the "less of me" part of "more of Jesus, less of me" ). God is not fully knowable, if only because He is the Creator and we are creatures. God has revealed much of Who He is in His word (and some is inferrable from creation), but human language is limited, as is human understanding. How Father, Son and the Holy Spirit an be distinct persons, yet one God I do not understand. What I do know is that that is how God revealed Himself in Scripture (Old and New Testament, as we call His revelations). Like you, I understand that passage in Deuteronomy to mean that there is but one God: unlike in Egypt, which Israel had just left; unlike the Canaanites, whose land Israel was about to conquer.

[PaulSacramento]

Here is the thing about God, if he "can't" be something then He is not God, is He?

If God can't be divisible ( whatever that means) He is not God because, if a being that exists CAN be divisible then that being can do something God can't and as such, God is can't be viewed as God anymore.

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

2. God is not divisible Deuteronomy 6:4-7 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.

In Hebrew, Dt 6:4 reads,

Shema Yisrael, Yehovah (YHWH) Eloheinu, Yehovah (YHWH) Ehad. Religious Jews do not write out ''God'' (prefering ''G-d''). Religious Jews will not even say the word YHWH. When spoken, Dt. 6:4 is ''Shema Yisrael, Adonai Eloheinu, Adonai Ehad.'' The word Adonai means ''Lord.''

Now, both Adonai and Eloheinu use plural forms of the Hebrew words Lord and God. A-HA!

Tell this to your Jewish friend and ask him for an explanation. Give him time to consult his Rabbi. (I already know the answer he'll give you but we really should go through the whole exercise for his sake.)

BTW, check out B.W.'s thread entitled The Old Testament Concept of God in the Christian Theology Forum. He's has done a great job there so you should check it out. (Maybe some smart moderator could provide a direct link to B.W.'s thread?)

FL

[RickD]

FL, I checked around, and none of the smart moderators were available. So I decided to post the link myself.

The Old Testament Concept of God

[Silvertusk]

FL, I checked around, and none of the smart moderators were available. So I decided to post the link myself.

The Old Testament Concept of God

I was around......... Oh I see what you mean...

[Silvertusk]

Here is the thing about God, if he "can't" be something then He is not God, is He?

If God can't be divisible ( whatever that means) He is not God because, if a being that exists CAN be divisible then that being can do something God can't and as such, God is can't be viewed as God anymore.

Love it. Never thought of that.

[Danieltwotwenty]

Thanks Guys looking over it now.

[Danieltwotwenty]

2. God is not divisible Deuteronomy 6:4-7 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.

In Hebrew, Dt 6:4 reads,

Shema Yisrael, Yehovah (YHWH) Eloheinu, Yehovah (YHWH) Ehad. Religious Jews do not write out ''God'' (prefering ''G-d''). Religious Jews will not even say the word YHWH. When spoken, Dt. 6:4 is ''Shema Yisrael, Adonai Eloheinu, Adonai Ehad.'' The word Adonai means ''Lord.''

Now, both Adonai and Eloheinu use plural forms of the Hebrew words Lord and God. A-HA!

Tell this to your Jewish friend and ask him for an explanation. Give him time to consult his Rabbi. (I already know the answer he'll give you but we really should go through the whole exercise for his sake.)

BTW, check out B.W.'s thread entitled The Old Testament Concept of God in the Christian Theology Forum. He's has done a great job there so you should check it out. (Maybe some smart moderator could provide a direct link to B.W.'s thread?)

FL

I have asked and waiting for a reply, while that is happening I will read BW'S thread.

[RickD]

FL, I checked around, and none of the smart moderators were available. So I decided to post the link myself.

The Old Testament Concept of God

I was around......... Oh I see what you mean...

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

In Hebrew, Dt 6:4 reads,

Shema Yisrael, Yehovah (YHWH) Eloheinu, Yehovah (YHWH) Ehad. Religious Jews do not write out ''God'' (prefering ''G-d''). Religious Jews will not even say the word YHWH. When spoken, Dt. 6:4 is ''Shema Yisrael, Adonai Eloheinu, Adonai Ehad.'' The word Adonai means ''Lord.''

Now, both Adonai and Eloheinu use plural forms of the Hebrew words Lord and God.

In our Bibles, the singular form of the word ''God'' can be seen in Jesus' last words, Mt 27:46. Here, Jesus is speaking directly with the Father.

Another thing: as a general rule, Jews do not read the Bible. They read rabbinical commentaries and breviaries. If you can get your Jewish friend to open a Bible and read it, great! you will be rewarded for this in heaven, I'm sure. Also, don't expect a sudden acceptance of Jesus as Lord. It may come...but pride and the shameful ''Christian'' history towards the Jews will - more than likely - make your undertaking an uphill battle. May God be with you.

FL

FL, I checked around, and none of the smart moderators were available. So I decided to post the link myself.

The Old Testament Concept of God

Good boy! You're a good boy! God will reward you with two more Talents!

FL

[B. W.]

FL, I checked around, and none of the smart moderators were available. So I decided to post the link myself.

The Old Testament Concept of God

I was on vacation past two weeks and just returned today - glad to see Rick doing something
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[Danieltwotwenty]

Well I got a response, he rejects the plural use of the words, he cannot provide an explanation why the text should be interpreted as such even in light of the context I provided he just kept asserting that is the interpretation. Even if the correct interpretation is one it is still divisible, divide one by 3 and you get .33333333333333333333333333 off into infinity does this mean God is infinite!!


Anyway all he has are assertions, it was a bit like talking to alter2ego. I guess there is no point in continuing with him as I feel like I am trying to reason with a brick wall.

[Jac3510]

I don't have access to the internet right now except from my phone so I can't post much. Suffice it to say your friend is right that God is not divisible, and I wouldn't accept the argument based on plural nouns fit the Trinity either. Google "divine simplicity and the Trinity" for how Christians have traditionally answered this question. I also give a detailed answer in my thesis available on my blog. Link is in sig.

[PeteSinCA]

FL, I checked around, and none of the smart moderators were available. So I decided to post the link myself.

The Old Testament Concept of God

Just. WOW!

Thanks B.W. and Rick! That is a LOT to chew on!