Calvinism and Free Will

[CazPerth]

I am trying to understand something because it really provoked a disquiet in my heart. I read that Calvinist doctrine is that God alone decides who is saved and who is not, that salvation is predetermined and there is nothing any of us can do to change what God has set in train. I just find that idea so depressing.

I don't know if I am misunderstanding that point of view because I just can't believe it.

Ok, I know I don't have to believe the above (if I have understood it correctly) but the revelation that led to my salvation was about free will. If I am wrong about that then I may as well be an atheist again because, to me, the idea that we are all just going through the motions as predetermined by God is no different to a bleak purposeless life with no God if, indeed, I have no way to save myself.

Why would God do that? He may as well just skip to eternity and put us out of our misery - or into our misery as the case may be.

Interested in your thoughts. I am praying on this because I don't know why it has affected me so deeply.

Love
Carolyn

[RickD]

Hi Caz,

I only have access to my iPhone this morning, so it's a little difficult to find what I'm looking for. But here's a post that has some links to Calvinism threads we've had here:
http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... sm#p112400

Calvinism seems to be one of the more emotional topics here.

Caz wrote:
I am trying to understand something because it really provoked a disquiet in my heart. I read that Calvinist doctrine is that God alone decides who is saved and who is not, that salvation is predetermined and there is nothing any of us can do to change what God has set in train. I just find that idea so depressing.

Many of us here fall on the side of disagreement with this doctrine too.

I suggest you do a little searching here.

[neo-x]

There are PLENTY OF THREADS ON THE TOPIC HERE. Please search for these and lets not start a new one.

Personally I don't want to participate or start this topic again. It is an intimate faith thing and sometimes makes us lose friendship over theological problems. Last time this happened, it resulted in Danny leaving, it is irrelevant if Danny was wrong or right...I miss him and I'm sure all the old members do.

[CazPerth]

Thank you, I see it is a topic that others have also found emotional I will seek the previous posts.

God Bless

[neo-x]

Thank you, I see it is a topic that others have also found emotional I will seek the previous posts.

God Bless

Thank you, you will find a great many debates and sound arguments on both side on previous threads... and just to clarify my use of CAPS was not a "yelling" so I hope you didn't read it that way.

[Silvertusk]

Look up Molinism as well as that is the doctrine I subscribe to and in my humble opinion makes the best sense of scripture and God's divine love and our freewill.

[CazPerth]

WOW! I see this is one of the big ones. You might want to have a sticky or a thread devoted to it that is more obvious.

I didn't intend to open a can of worms so I am just going to gently replace the lid and back away softly.

Love
Carolyn

[B. W.]

WOW! I see this is one of the big ones. You might want to have a sticky or a thread devoted to it that is more obvious.

I didn't intend to open a can of worms so I am just going to gently replace the lid and back away softly.

Love
Carolyn

Enjoy the reading of the many threads on this topic.

Concerning the topic - God does indeed decide but not how human beings think He does and that is the key to understand predestination. After all the bible does declare: He does great things past finding out, Yes, wonders without number." Job 9:10, NKJV --- "Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways!" Rom 11:33, NASB

If you look up Romans 8:29, 30 as that verse helps explain what I mean. From it, spring forth two basic forms of human derived theological thought - yet - the verses defines what predestination is. What happens, in these debates that you will read on this forum regarding this subject is how two sides interpret these verses.

Here is one last point to consider when exploring this topic:

People can become very emotional over this doctrine more than they do about Jesus Christ. In other words, you can say, one's love is revealed (Romans 8:28). People can love this doctrine more than Christ and think their love of the doctrine of predestination is a barometer to indicate their love for Christ. However, please read the principles found in 1 Corinthians 3:3 and James 3:16

Enjoy the reading!
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[RickD]

WOW! I see this is one of the big ones. You might want to have a sticky or a thread devoted to it that is more obvious.

I didn't intend to open a can of worms so I am just going to gently replace the lid and back away softly.

Love
Carolyn

Caz, after searching, if you have any questions, you can post in any of the threads that are open. It's a 'touchy' subject, but it's also an important one. Please don't feel like you can't ask questions. There's no subject that you can't ask about.

[CazPerth]

Hi Ric, I am sure God is providing a lesson or showing me a path when I come up against these big questions. For this one I think it is that I needed to do a bit more independent research because I am obviously not the first to think about this! And don't get freaked out when I come across man-made ideas but instead to trust in His words.

[Jac3510]

WOW! I see this is one of the big ones. You might want to have a sticky or a thread devoted to it that is more obvious.

I didn't intend to open a can of worms so I am just going to gently replace the lid and back away softly.

Love
Carolyn

Actually, I think that's a great idea. One of the mods should make an index thread that has links to the major Calvinism threads and sticky that one at the top of this forum.

Any takers?