Hell'r, I came across this TED talk which I found quite interesting. It's about 20 minutes long and deals with the nature of God due to the existence of suffering. The talk is given by a priest who has wrestled with some fundamental questions concerning God's nature after the tsunami in southeast Asia back 04 I believe. He makes some interesting claims concerning fundamental Christian doctrine, and I would like to get some of your thoughts on the matter. Thanks for your time, Jake
TED- Tom Honey on God and the Tsumani
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PaulSacramento
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Re: TED- Tom Honey on God and the Tsumani
Different people reconcile suffering and God in different ways and what works for ONE may not work for another.
Here is an example by Pastor Tim Keller:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkn5lfutSrY
IMO and what has worked for me ( which means it was the only thing that made sense TO ME) is the understanding that the greatest example of love is Compassion, which means (literally) "to suffer with others". IMO compassion is what brings humans to our highest levels, it brings even enemies together and crosses all boundries of society and all divisions BUT to feel compassion there must be suffering.
I think it is a statement on mankind that we are at our best when we deal with suffering.
Of course, your mileage may vary.
Here is an example by Pastor Tim Keller:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkn5lfutSrY
IMO and what has worked for me ( which means it was the only thing that made sense TO ME) is the understanding that the greatest example of love is Compassion, which means (literally) "to suffer with others". IMO compassion is what brings humans to our highest levels, it brings even enemies together and crosses all boundries of society and all divisions BUT to feel compassion there must be suffering.
I think it is a statement on mankind that we are at our best when we deal with suffering.
Of course, your mileage may vary.
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domokunrox
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Re: TED- Tom Honey on God and the Tsumani
Hi Jaythecub
Thanks for sharing this video.
If you want my thoughts on the video or his statements, then I found him inconsistent in explanatory power but he is content with saying he just doesn't have the answers and not qualified to do so. So, overall he is correct in his message, just not able to articulate the details to the satisfaction some people want (or sometimes demand) in this day and age before they commit to following it.
Most pastors or clergy are more interested in explaining theology and how to make it applicable today, not the apologetics. I think this is a clear cut example of why churches are going to need to have pastors who are equipped in apologetics or hire an Christian apologist (probably part-time)
As an apologist, I don't even know how this even needed to have a 20 minute presentation.
The question is "How can God allow suffering?" or something similar. This often get interpreted by the skeptics to "How can a all loving/knowing/powerful God allow evil or suffering to exist?" to which I say there is no logical inconsistencies or evidence that God's existence or nature is problematic/compromised/etc due to the existence of evil or suffering.
In fact, in my position, I believe that God is actively preventing the deaths or prolonged suffering from those whom will accept him while those who wouldn't are free to continue the life they wanted (without God). All while not negating anyone's free will or completely stopping the earth's plate movements, wind current, water current, etc.
This isn't difficult to understand, but its very difficult for humanity to handle emotionally. Thats pretty much the grim reality of it. Thankfully, as Christians, we have Jesus. Pretty much solved the problem.
Thanks for sharing this video.
If you want my thoughts on the video or his statements, then I found him inconsistent in explanatory power but he is content with saying he just doesn't have the answers and not qualified to do so. So, overall he is correct in his message, just not able to articulate the details to the satisfaction some people want (or sometimes demand) in this day and age before they commit to following it.
Most pastors or clergy are more interested in explaining theology and how to make it applicable today, not the apologetics. I think this is a clear cut example of why churches are going to need to have pastors who are equipped in apologetics or hire an Christian apologist (probably part-time)
As an apologist, I don't even know how this even needed to have a 20 minute presentation.
The question is "How can God allow suffering?" or something similar. This often get interpreted by the skeptics to "How can a all loving/knowing/powerful God allow evil or suffering to exist?" to which I say there is no logical inconsistencies or evidence that God's existence or nature is problematic/compromised/etc due to the existence of evil or suffering.
In fact, in my position, I believe that God is actively preventing the deaths or prolonged suffering from those whom will accept him while those who wouldn't are free to continue the life they wanted (without God). All while not negating anyone's free will or completely stopping the earth's plate movements, wind current, water current, etc.
This isn't difficult to understand, but its very difficult for humanity to handle emotionally. Thats pretty much the grim reality of it. Thankfully, as Christians, we have Jesus. Pretty much solved the problem.
Re: TED- Tom Honey on God and the Tsumani
Thank you both for your thoughts.
Phillip, I have been slowly reading through Timothy Keller's Reason for God, in which he has a similar perspective on suffering. It mainly states that to know know true joy and wholeness it is necessary that we know the opposite, suffering and pain. I think that is profound argument, and I had frankly forgotten about it in my other wrestlings.
Domo, what are your thoughts on the theodicy? The paradox of if God is all powerful and God is good, and evil is real, then God is either not all powerful or not all good.
Phillip, I have been slowly reading through Timothy Keller's Reason for God, in which he has a similar perspective on suffering. It mainly states that to know know true joy and wholeness it is necessary that we know the opposite, suffering and pain. I think that is profound argument, and I had frankly forgotten about it in my other wrestlings.
Domo, what are your thoughts on the theodicy? The paradox of if God is all powerful and God is good, and evil is real, then God is either not all powerful or not all good.
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domokunrox
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Re: TED- Tom Honey on God and the Tsumani
I preemptively answered thisJayTheCub wrote:Domo, what are your thoughts on the theodicy? The paradox of if God is all powerful and God is good, and evil is real, then God is either not all powerful or not all good.
If there is in fact a logical inconsistency or evidence that shows that the existence of God or God's nature with the existence of suffering or evil, then I have yet to hear how those ideas are necessarily connected by the relations of ideas or by observing matter in motion (constant conjunction).This often get interpreted by the skeptics to "How can a all loving/knowing/powerful God allow evil or suffering to exist?" to which I say there is no logical inconsistencies or evidence that God's existence or nature is problematic/compromised/etc due to the existence of evil or suffering.
The burden of proof is on the person who has made this claim, and there has not been a single skeptic in history who has successfully made such an argument. Its a childish & fallacious argument that only further provides evidence for the arrogant pride of humanity who think they are better then God and/or better off without him.