Atheism: Belief or Position?

[RickD]

So I guess your question has been answered. Atheism is a belief. A belief that there is no God.


Seems simple enough?

[jlay]

These are not my ideas, these are the ideas of science.

Wow? Science has ideas. Science deals with the physical. Ideas are metaphysical. Maybe you should brush up on the definition of science.

These are not my ideas, these are the ideas of science. These ideas have been established to help us determine what is true, and what is not. These are ideas of how we think. They are also more than ideas, they are rules. Go ahead and challenge them, if that is what you want to do. However, that is a far step back from where we are now. That is very much a topic of philosophy, which doesn't belong here.

You are talking about ideas and truth. That is very much philosophy. Otherwise, what is the scientific process for measuring ideas and truth?

[Lunalle]

EDIT: Moved to PM

[PaulSacramento]

The burden of proof always lies on the person making a comment, regardless of the comment.
If I tell a person that has never seen snow that snow exists, then I have to prove it and that is that.
If a person tells me, because they have never seen a black swan, that black swans do NOT exist, then they have to prove that also.
The best that person can say ( in regards to the black swan) is that, personally, they have never seen one and, until they do, they don't believe they exist.
In short, the "agnostic" position.

[Lunalle]

The burden of proof always lies on the person making a comment, regardless of the comment.
If I tell a person that has never seen snow that snow exists, then I have to prove it and that is that.
If a person tells me, because they have never seen a black swan, that black swans do NOT exist, then they have to prove that also.
The best that person can say ( in regards to the black swan) is that, personally, they have never seen one and, until they do, they don't believe they exist.
In short, the "agnostic" position.

No, the burden of proof always lies on the person making a claim. There's no burden of proof for having an opinion, or even speaking your opinion.

[PaulSacramento]

The burden of proof always lies on the person making a comment, regardless of the comment.
If I tell a person that has never seen snow that snow exists, then I have to prove it and that is that.
If a person tells me, because they have never seen a black swan, that black swans do NOT exist, then they have to prove that also.
The best that person can say ( in regards to the black swan) is that, personally, they have never seen one and, until they do, they don't believe they exist.
In short, the "agnostic" position.

No, the burden of proof always lies on the person making a claim. There's no burden of proof for having an opinion, or even speaking your opinion.

Fair enough.
If all ones has and all one is expressing is an opinion, then, what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

[Lunalle]

Fair enough. If all ones has and all one is expressing is an opinion, then, what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

I'm so happy you agree. I've been bashing my head off my desk all day long. You're the first person to actually agree with me on that.

[Danieltwotwenty]

Fair enough. If all ones has and all one is expressing is an opinion, then, what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

I'm so happy you agree. I've been bashing my head off my desk all day long. You're the first person to actually agree with me on that.

So we no longer have to provide you proof.

[Lunalle]

So we no longer have to provide you proof.

Not for your opinions, nope. You do if you claim something is true though.

[Danieltwotwenty]

So we no longer have to provide you proof.

Not for your opinions, nope. You do if you claim something is true though.

This just sounds like a game of semantics, if I say my opinion that God is real then really I am saying I believe it is true. Every truth becomes an opinion if we look at it in the way of opinion, everything is subjected to the individual's opinion.

It's a bit of a cop out really if everyone claims it's just my opinion, there is little point in even discussing anything anymore.

[Lunalle]

This just sounds like a game of semantics, if I say my opinion that God is real then really I am saying I believe it is true. Every truth becomes an opinion if we look at it in the way of opinion, everything is subjected to the individual's opinion. It's a bit of a cop out really if everyone claims it's just my opinion, there is little point in even discussing anything anymore.

I see what you're saying Dan, but I think it is a very important distinction. If you honestly just throw out your opinion, as such, there is very little pressure for anyone to agree with you. If you claim something is true, then there is a much higher pressure for others agreeing with you. What we're concerned about, is the pressure on others to agree. Which is why we say you have a "burden of proof" if you are pressuring others to agree with you.

Cheers!

[1over137]

This just sounds like a game of semantics, if I say my opinion that God is real then really I am saying I believe it is true. Every truth becomes an opinion if we look at it in the way of opinion, everything is subjected to the individual's opinion. It's a bit of a cop out really if everyone claims it's just my opinion, there is little point in even discussing anything anymore.

I see what you're saying Dan, but I think it is a very important distinction. If you honestly just throw out your opinion, as such, there is very little pressure for anyone to agree with you. If you claim something is true, then there is a much higher pressure for others agreeing with you. What we're concerned about, is the pressure on others to agree. Which is why we say you have a "burden of proof" if you are pressuring others to agree with you.

Cheers!

I was reading your post and then noticed your signature. Is that what is in you signature just an opinion or a claim? It sounds like a claim.

[Lunalle]

I was reading your post and then noticed your signature. Is that what is in you signature just an opinion or a claim? It sounds like a claim.

Good catch!

The first part of my signature contains a definition (a reference, not a claim).

The second part of my signature is a play on words, but even in being a play on words, it does make a strong claim.

Now, making a claim (as I am more than an atheist), I do have a burden of proof. I've given a few points of evidence in my posts here and there. I've been trying to avoid laying them all out in one place, as I expect it will offend a lot of people. If you want to hold me to that burden of proof, I am willing to further discuss it via PM, or an offsite reference, but I'll leave that up to you. Hopefully that is acceptable. If not, do you have an alternate proposal?

[1over137]

Pm me what you think are proofs. And please be patient with my replies.

[RickD]

Atheism:

1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

They both mean the same thing. If one disbelieves in God, then one believes there is no God. Therefore atheism is a belief.