Atheism: Belief or Position?
- RickD
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Re: Atheism: Belief or Position?
So I guess your question has been answered. Atheism is a belief. A belief that there is no God.
Seems simple enough?
Seems simple enough?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
- jlay
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Re: Atheism: Belief or Position?
Wow? Science has ideas. Science deals with the physical. Ideas are metaphysical. Maybe you should brush up on the definition of science.Lunalle wrote:These are not my ideas, these are the ideas of science.
You are talking about ideas and truth. That is very much philosophy. Otherwise, what is the scientific process for measuring ideas and truth?These are not my ideas, these are the ideas of science. These ideas have been established to help us determine what is true, and what is not. These are ideas of how we think. They are also more than ideas, they are rules. Go ahead and challenge them, if that is what you want to do. However, that is a far step back from where we are now. That is very much a topic of philosophy, which doesn't belong here.
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Re: Atheism: Belief or Position?
EDIT: Moved to PM
Atheism: disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods. (from Greek atheos, from a- 'without' + theos 'god').
Are you an atheist or a theist? If you're a theist, move a little closer to the truth, and become an atheist!
Are you an atheist or a theist? If you're a theist, move a little closer to the truth, and become an atheist!
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Re: Atheism: Belief or Position?
The burden of proof always lies on the person making a comment, regardless of the comment.
If I tell a person that has never seen snow that snow exists, then I have to prove it and that is that.
If a person tells me, because they have never seen a black swan, that black swans do NOT exist, then they have to prove that also.
The best that person can say ( in regards to the black swan) is that, personally, they have never seen one and, until they do, they don't believe they exist.
In short, the "agnostic" position.
If I tell a person that has never seen snow that snow exists, then I have to prove it and that is that.
If a person tells me, because they have never seen a black swan, that black swans do NOT exist, then they have to prove that also.
The best that person can say ( in regards to the black swan) is that, personally, they have never seen one and, until they do, they don't believe they exist.
In short, the "agnostic" position.
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Re: Atheism: Belief or Position?
No, the burden of proof always lies on the person making a claim. There's no burden of proof for having an opinion, or even speaking your opinion.PaulSacramento wrote:The burden of proof always lies on the person making a comment, regardless of the comment.
If I tell a person that has never seen snow that snow exists, then I have to prove it and that is that.
If a person tells me, because they have never seen a black swan, that black swans do NOT exist, then they have to prove that also.
The best that person can say ( in regards to the black swan) is that, personally, they have never seen one and, until they do, they don't believe they exist.
In short, the "agnostic" position.
Atheism: disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods. (from Greek atheos, from a- 'without' + theos 'god').
Are you an atheist or a theist? If you're a theist, move a little closer to the truth, and become an atheist!
Are you an atheist or a theist? If you're a theist, move a little closer to the truth, and become an atheist!
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Re: Atheism: Belief or Position?
Fair enough.Lunalle wrote:No, the burden of proof always lies on the person making a claim. There's no burden of proof for having an opinion, or even speaking your opinion.PaulSacramento wrote:The burden of proof always lies on the person making a comment, regardless of the comment.
If I tell a person that has never seen snow that snow exists, then I have to prove it and that is that.
If a person tells me, because they have never seen a black swan, that black swans do NOT exist, then they have to prove that also.
The best that person can say ( in regards to the black swan) is that, personally, they have never seen one and, until they do, they don't believe they exist.
In short, the "agnostic" position.
If all ones has and all one is expressing is an opinion, then, what is good for the goose is good for the gander.
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Re: Atheism: Belief or Position?
I'm so happy you agree. I've been bashing my head off my desk all day long. You're the first person to actually agree with me on that.PaulSacramento wrote: Fair enough. If all ones has and all one is expressing is an opinion, then, what is good for the goose is good for the gander.
Atheism: disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods. (from Greek atheos, from a- 'without' + theos 'god').
Are you an atheist or a theist? If you're a theist, move a little closer to the truth, and become an atheist!
Are you an atheist or a theist? If you're a theist, move a little closer to the truth, and become an atheist!
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Re: Atheism: Belief or Position?
Lunalle wrote:I'm so happy you agree. I've been bashing my head off my desk all day long. You're the first person to actually agree with me on that.PaulSacramento wrote: Fair enough. If all ones has and all one is expressing is an opinion, then, what is good for the goose is good for the gander.
So we no longer have to provide you proof.
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.
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Re: Atheism: Belief or Position?
Not for your opinions, nope. You do if you claim something is true though.Danieltwotwenty wrote:So we no longer have to provide you proof.
Atheism: disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods. (from Greek atheos, from a- 'without' + theos 'god').
Are you an atheist or a theist? If you're a theist, move a little closer to the truth, and become an atheist!
Are you an atheist or a theist? If you're a theist, move a little closer to the truth, and become an atheist!
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Re: Atheism: Belief or Position?
This just sounds like a game of semantics, if I say my opinion that God is real then really I am saying I believe it is true. Every truth becomes an opinion if we look at it in the way of opinion, everything is subjected to the individual's opinion.Lunalle wrote:Not for your opinions, nope. You do if you claim something is true though.Danieltwotwenty wrote:So we no longer have to provide you proof.
It's a bit of a cop out really if everyone claims it's just my opinion, there is little point in even discussing anything anymore.
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.
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Re: Atheism: Belief or Position?
I see what you're saying Dan, but I think it is a very important distinction. If you honestly just throw out your opinion, as such, there is very little pressure for anyone to agree with you. If you claim something is true, then there is a much higher pressure for others agreeing with you. What we're concerned about, is the pressure on others to agree. Which is why we say you have a "burden of proof" if you are pressuring others to agree with you.Danieltwotwenty wrote:This just sounds like a game of semantics, if I say my opinion that God is real then really I am saying I believe it is true. Every truth becomes an opinion if we look at it in the way of opinion, everything is subjected to the individual's opinion. It's a bit of a cop out really if everyone claims it's just my opinion, there is little point in even discussing anything anymore.
Cheers!
Atheism: disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods. (from Greek atheos, from a- 'without' + theos 'god').
Are you an atheist or a theist? If you're a theist, move a little closer to the truth, and become an atheist!
Are you an atheist or a theist? If you're a theist, move a little closer to the truth, and become an atheist!
- 1over137
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Re: Atheism: Belief or Position?
I was reading your post and then noticed your signature. Is that what is in you signature just an opinion or a claim? It sounds like a claim.Lunalle wrote:I see what you're saying Dan, but I think it is a very important distinction. If you honestly just throw out your opinion, as such, there is very little pressure for anyone to agree with you. If you claim something is true, then there is a much higher pressure for others agreeing with you. What we're concerned about, is the pressure on others to agree. Which is why we say you have a "burden of proof" if you are pressuring others to agree with you.Danieltwotwenty wrote:This just sounds like a game of semantics, if I say my opinion that God is real then really I am saying I believe it is true. Every truth becomes an opinion if we look at it in the way of opinion, everything is subjected to the individual's opinion. It's a bit of a cop out really if everyone claims it's just my opinion, there is little point in even discussing anything anymore.
Cheers!
But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21
For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6
#foreverinmyheart
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21
For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6
#foreverinmyheart
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Re: Atheism: Belief or Position?
Good catch!1over137 wrote:I was reading your post and then noticed your signature. Is that what is in you signature just an opinion or a claim? It sounds like a claim.
The first part of my signature contains a definition (a reference, not a claim).
The second part of my signature is a play on words, but even in being a play on words, it does make a strong claim.
Now, making a claim (as I am more than an atheist), I do have a burden of proof. I've given a few points of evidence in my posts here and there. I've been trying to avoid laying them all out in one place, as I expect it will offend a lot of people. If you want to hold me to that burden of proof, I am willing to further discuss it via PM, or an offsite reference, but I'll leave that up to you. Hopefully that is acceptable. If not, do you have an alternate proposal?
Atheism: disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods. (from Greek atheos, from a- 'without' + theos 'god').
Are you an atheist or a theist? If you're a theist, move a little closer to the truth, and become an atheist!
Are you an atheist or a theist? If you're a theist, move a little closer to the truth, and become an atheist!
- 1over137
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Re: Atheism: Belief or Position?
Pm me what you think are proofs. And please be patient with my replies.
But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21
For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6
#foreverinmyheart
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21
For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6
#foreverinmyheart
- RickD
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Re: Atheism: Belief or Position?
Atheism:
They both mean the same thing. If one disbelieves in God, then one believes there is no God. Therefore atheism is a belief.1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony