Free will / Adam and Eve

Dawngoogs · Post by **Dawngoogs** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:17 am

Kateliz,

That's a very interesting view. Do you realize how that view closely resembles the christian gnostic views?

In short, it is our inner conscience or awareness that is a part of God. The gnostic belief is that the serpent was not evil. The serpent was a representation of the true God. Who they view as different from god the creator. In their view, God the creater was a lessor god who is below the realm of the "true" God.

The "true" God wished that Adam & Eve eat from the Tree of knowledge. So that man would have the same substance of the "true" God within him.

If you haven't, you should read the some of the Nag Hammadi texts.

ochotseat · Post by **ochotseat** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 11:57 pm

kateliz wrote: It seems very obvious to me, based on that logic, that God set them up for failure.
.

Why would the Lord do that? God has created man with a free will, because he wants us to have that freedom. Lucifer used his free will to rebel against God to become the Devil. I've read that once our Father creates something, such as humans, he then takes his hands off to allow humanity to make its own decisions. Jesus doesn't force us to do anything or else we'd all be loving Christians and there'd be no evil in this world. He tests us by permitting us to choose our destiny and between right and wrong, which is what Adam and Eve did. Satan and Eve (and Adam maybe to a lesser degree) founded the sinful foundation from which we sin today.

bizzt · Post by **bizzt** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 6:48 am

ochotseat wrote:
kateliz wrote: It seems very obvious to me, based on that logic, that God set them up for failure.
.
I've read that once our Father creates something, such as humans, he then takes his hands off to allow humanity to make its own decisions.

Do you have Scriptural Proof to support that View?

fedexguy · Post by **fedexguy** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 9:16 pm

great thought lines guys, I think we are heading in the right direction here. if I may drop a note here I would like to inject another line of reasoning on "original" sin. evil was possible because God gave creatures free moral choice(man and angels as far as scripture reveals are the only 2 free moral agents created). evil is to choose other than the best(the perfect will of God) He knew when He gave us this choice ability that we would fail and established the plan of salvation at that instant(per scripture) why angels are not redeemed I do not know but will posit that they are in the very same realm as God so they are without excuse??????????? anyway Adam and Eve chose to not do the will of God by free choice but could have chosen otherwise(to follow the will of God) not having knowledge of good and evil does not relieve them of the consequences since they had even been told that as well. I may not know that putting a handgun to my head and squeezing the trigger will be detrimental to me but if I choose the wrong decision I will suffer the consequences nonetheless. this is a common enough situation with children that I think we can all see that they have no "knowledge" of this danger but will suffer anyway. it may be a crude analogy but one worth considering. the amazing thing is that the Almighty not only gave us free will but also the cure for the consequence of our free will so that we can freely accept His eternal will to love us.

ochotseat · Post by **ochotseat** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 11:54 pm

bizzt wrote: Do you have Scriptural Proof to support that View?

Do you disagree with God-given free will?
Here's what's on the credible 700 Club website:

If we have free will and choice, how can we be predestined and chosen (Romans 8:29 and Ephesians 1:4)?

While predestination and free will seem logically contradictory to each other, from God's perspective they are not. They are actually complementary. God predestines through the free choice of people. This is a part of the mystery of how God works with man. For example, if God predestines my salvation, my freedom of choice comes into play. God is sovereign and therein human choices are confirmed.

kateliz · Post by **kateliz** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 9:44 pm

All wrong, all wrong. Everyone just use my former posts as a textbook for your theology, please. Now class, please turn to "Katie's Post #3" and read it aloud. [The class does so.] Now face The Katie Flag and pledge allegiance to this fine statement with your hand on your heart."

Ha ha, oh- that was hillarious. What was my third post? Who knows, and who cares.

But please, ocho at least, do read my former posts on this thread. I do not wish to repeat myself endlessly, (or even twice!)

But trust me, I have the real answer to this question. And no one else does, by the way. No, not even God. In fact, He was my first, and finest, pupil. Sadly, He was not the first to graduate. What a pity. I was so ashamed and disappointed.

Deborah · Post by **Deborah** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:28 pm

I have heard it said, that because Eve was deseved woman have to sit quietly in the background. This is why there was to me no woman pastors ect. for it was Eve that was deseaved not Adam.
Yet both made the choice to eat the fruit, and Adam knew exactly what he was doing, he knew he was going against the will of god. He could have said NO. Eve did not purposely go against the lord, but that is exactly what Adam seems to have done.
Also the fact that neither would except responsability for there actions,
ie. Adam blamed Eve, and Eve blammed the serpent.
Would not have owning up that it was their choice, and their choice alone been repenting. Repentence is a very important part of what God expects from his children in order to recieve his gift of eternal life that Adam and Eve threw away.
Did Adam and Eve ever repent?

bizzt · Post by **bizzt** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 3:38 pm

kateliz wrote:All wrong, all wrong. Everyone just use my former posts as a textbook for your theology, please. Now class, please turn to "Katie's Post #3" and read it aloud. [The class does so.] Now face The Katie Flag and pledge allegiance to this fine statement with your hand on your heart."

Ha ha, oh- that was hillarious. What was my third post? Who knows, and who cares.

But please, ocho at least, do read my former posts on this thread. I do not wish to repeat myself endlessly, (or even twice!)

But trust me, I have the real answer to this question. And no one else does, by the way. No, not even God. In fact, He was my first, and finest, pupil. Sadly, He was not the first to graduate. What a pity. I was so ashamed and disappointed.

I think Felgar needs to take care of this Post!!!

bizzt · Post by **bizzt** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 3:47 pm

ochotseat wrote:
bizzt wrote: Do you have Scriptural Proof to support that View?
Do you disagree with God-given free will?
Here's what's on the credible 700 Club website:

If we have free will and choice, how can we be predestined and chosen (Romans 8:29 and Ephesians 1:4)?

While predestination and free will seem logically contradictory to each other, from God's perspective they are not. They are actually complementary. God predestines through the free choice of people. This is a part of the mystery of how God works with man. For example, if God predestines my salvation, my freedom of choice comes into play. God is sovereign and therein human choices are confirmed.

However you were not talking about that OC... I do not know how one can be predestined yet still have a Choice but in any case I am not worried about that what I am wondering is if you have Scriptural Proof to the Below post especially

You said
I've read that once our Father creates something, such as humans, he then takes his hands off to allow humanity to make its own decisions.

kateliz wrote:

It seems very obvious to me, based on that logic, that God set them up for failure.
[/b]

Evidence for God from Science

Free will / Adam and Eve

Interesting view..