Christians rejecting the Old Testament

[neo-x]

All you guys have to tell me ia that how does spiritual death came from one man. I can understand the spiritual death of one man, but how is it passed to everyone has escaped me. Please do tell.

[Byblos]

All you guys have to tell me ia that how does spiritual death came from one man. I can understand the spiritual death of one man, but how is it passed to everyone has escaped me. Please do tell.

Because the real Adam and Eve are really and truly the first 'humans' made in the image of God and we are all really and truly their descendants. In evolutionary terms, DNA evidence may show a mixture of other descendants which would be coming from prior (biological) ancestors, though not human.

[neo-x]

All you guys have to tell me ia that how does spiritual death came from one man. I can understand the spiritual death of one man, but how is it passed to everyone has escaped me. Please do tell.

Because the real Adam and Eve are really and truly the first 'humans' made in the image of God and we are all really and truly their descendants. In evolutionary terms, DNA evidence may show a mixture of other descendants which would be coming from prior (biological) ancestors, though not human.

Im not sure i follow you are saying that imperfect spirit is passed on with dna?

[RickD]

All you guys have to tell me ia that how does spiritual death came from one man. I can understand the spiritual death of one man, but how is it passed to everyone has escaped me. Please do tell.

I can tell I'm not going to do your question any justice Neo.(where's Jac when you need him?)

I'd say spiritual death didn't come from one man, death(to man) entered through one man. And, as far as passing from Adam to all men, Jac also explained this too. But since Jac's not here, I'll give it a shot:

Romans 5:12:
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--
Through one man(Adam) sin entered the world. And death through sin entered the world. The text doesn't say (all)death entered the world, specifically death through sin, because only man can sin. And so death spread to all men BECAUSE all men sin.

[neo-x]

Thanks rick, i will think it over. Need to sleep now
.

[Byblos]

All you guys have to tell me ia that how does spiritual death came from one man. I can understand the spiritual death of one man, but how is it passed to everyone has escaped me. Please do tell.

Because the real Adam and Eve are really and truly the first 'humans' made in the image of God and we are all really and truly their descendants. In evolutionary terms, DNA evidence may show a mixture of other descendants which would be coming from prior (biological) ancestors, though not human.

Im not sure i follow you are saying that imperfect spirit is passed on with dna?

I don't know whether or not it's passed on through DNA. I believe it is inherited nonetheless. I guess that's where 'we are born this way' plays a role.

[Philip]

What we have inherited through Adam is our sin NATURES - his fallen genetics that include a sin nature, a corrupted (post eating of the off-limits tree) nature/genetics that are inevitable to produce sin, as ALL with it WILL sin. We aren't condemned merely for the sin of Adam, but for our OWN sins. But the genetics that have been passed down through Adam also include our sinful natures, with which mean that we cannot/will not be able avoid sinning - as even believers still sin - an inevitability of being in the flesh/mortal/descendants of Adam.

[RickD]

What we have inherited through Adam is our sin NATURES - his fallen genetics that include a sin nature, a corrupted (post eating of the off-limits tree) nature/genetics that are inevitable to produce sin, as ALL with it WILL sin. We aren't condemned merely for the sin of Adam, but for our OWN sins. But the genetics that have been passed down through Adam also include our sinful natures, with which mean that we cannot/will not be able avoid sinning - as even believers still sin - an inevitability of being in the flesh/mortal/descendants of Adam.

Yet another reason to believe Adam was a real person.

Good post Mr. Highlander.

[Philip]

Neo, I am not accusing you of anything, but I am asking you clarifying questions so as to understand how you decide which parts of Scripture to believe. You apparently believe in Jesus, a need to be saved, and yet you are rejecting very key elements from the very same books of Scripture that explain this key need (ESPECIALLY, salvation). You are elevating logic and reason over the miraculous - even though you say you believe in the miraculous - as you are also picking and choosing WHICH miraculous parts of Scripture you will accept. My question is, what is your criteria for doing so - as you are apparently accepting aspects of Scripture that aren't scientifically or humanly logical and other parts of such elements you reject? How do you know which is WHICH and what is WHAT? And if you don't know the answers to these, how is Scripture of any value to you?

One thing, for sure, you surely can't believe in an all-powerful God Whose Word is important to Him, Who DIED to fulfill it, for Whom the integrity of His Word is immensely important. To allow numerous chunks of Scripture to be blended in with fiction - whether or not the writers believed it to be true - means that God isn't concerned about His truths being mixed up with fabrications/untruths - which would necessarily mean we are going to develop some very wrongful beliefs and horribly evil practices by following these inauthentic parts. We might as well believe that all paths/all religions lead to God.

Again, God speaks a universe into being but SOMEHOW He can't do so unless He did it precisely this way or that or in such a way that we would have complete and logical understanding of. If there is a Creator God, that is EXACTLY what I WOULD expect - many things which don't match up with human logic. A God allowing the brutality and murder of part of Himself for beings He created? And BY the hand of these miserable creations? Wouldn't God know the evil they would commit if He gave them free will? What's this whole thing about substitutionary atonement? ANY of that HUMANLY logical? If human logic is the basis of determining whether or not various Scriptures (the originals) are true, then we might as well discard much of it that is not KNOWN history.

[Revolutionary]

We might as well believe that all paths/all religions lead to God.

Wouldn't that be a beautiful expression!!!!

[Revolutionary]

We might actually see the entire of humanity as one body and begin embracing and healing the parts that exist in pain.... What a grand opportunity to share!

[RickD]

We might actually see the entire of humanity as one body and begin embracing and healing the parts that exist in pain

Revolutionary,
The problem with that is if God has given man eternal life through Christ, and only those who trust in Him receive this free gift, then embracing the notion that any path leads to God, could have dire consequences. If God has given us the way to eternal life through Christ, and we toss His way aside for another way, what do you think happens?

[Revolutionary]

We might actually see the entire of humanity as one body and begin embracing and healing the parts that exist in pain

Revolutionary,
The problem with that is if God has given man eternal life through Christ, and only those who trust in Him receive this free gift, then embracing the notion that any path leads to God, could have dire consequences. If God has given us the way to eternal life through Christ, and we toss His way aside for another way, what do you think happens?

What are the dire consequences of a reflection of love that is unhindered, without bounds, that doesn't discard a single life, that doesn't judge, that doesn't condemn..... Regardless of what is thrown at it, it loves!
Do you think we might start focusing on our own actions and how such a pure love could exist in spite of it, perhaps even begin to emulate it?
I see what you mean, it sounds infectious!

What a magnificent reflection, it's truly inspiring..... Tell me more!

[Revolutionary]

I have a brilliant idea, if there isn't a single path in existence that doesn't lead to God, it becomes utterly impossible to deny God.... It is only possible to deny yourself, doesn't such an intelligent focus direct us individually to where we are doing so?
A God who creates an arena where 'he' can't be denied?
This is truly a perfectly magnificent God.... Tell me more!

[Philip]

What are the dire consequences of a reflection of love that is unhindered, without bounds, that doesn't discard a single life, that doesn't judge, that doesn't condemn..... Regardless of what is thrown at it, it loves!

So man can decide to do ANYTHING it wants and God must accept it - He SHOULD accept it? No consequences for evil actions? So it doesn't matter whether one chooses to do good or unimaginable evil - whatever PATH one chooses should be ok with God. The puny, lowly creature of very limited understanding, foresight and knowledge dictates to the all-wise, all knowing and all-powerful Creator, the tail wags the dog? Such a God would be callous and unloving, leaving man to his own evil devices - and we have seen how well THAT works out, haven't we?

I have a brilliant idea, if there isn't a single path in existence that doesn't lead to God, it becomes utterly impossible to deny God.... It is only possible to deny yourself, doesn't such an intelligent focus direct us individually to where we are doing so?

Yes, this multiple pathways thing is a desire of MAN - who wishes to dictate to God what He should have to accept. Ever look at the teachings behind some of these pathways - cults of human sacrifice, hate, promotions of indiscriminate killing and brutality (look at radical Islam).

A God who creates an arena where 'he' can't be denied?

Who says that God will be denied - IN THE END? You see, a common mistake amongst unbelievers is to think that everything that is going on now will ALWAYS go on, or will always be TOLERATED. The ONLY reason God hasn't ended the present age of evil is that He mercifully desires that some will still come to Him and follow Him. It is only love that has kept salvation available to those remaining who will accept it. And God honors and rewards those who sincerely and diligently seek Him, and respond positively as He enlightens them. But many seek in insincerity, only finding that which they wish to find or that which justifies the behaviors they desire to continue. God has revealed to us that many things are evil in His sight and are harmful to us. And He's not going to allow men to declare what He says is evil as being "good" or acceptable. He has mercifully built in consequences to sin so that people will learn and reach out to him in the midst of their misery and suffering, much of it brought upon themselves through their sins.