Second Coming Already Happened?

[Believer]

I have heared a special term that dives into the notion that Jesus' second coming took place in 70 A.D., I think it is called preterism (sp?), is this true, and we are the many that are left behind?

[Kurieuo]

I'm certain they believe the second coming is yet to happen, however they believe Christ's kingdom came into effect upon His ascension as is also signified by the the Holy Spirit's coming down on the day of Pentecost. It is only possible for anyone to come into God's kingdom after Christ, since as Christ taught, He was the way and noone comes to the Father except through Him.

Now as for Christ's second coming, there are many who believe Christ will return back to Earth and setup a literal kingdom in Israel for 1000 years (a millenium). On the other hand, I think Preterists believe Christ will return not to setup a kingdom already inaugurated, but to bring an end to everything and begin judgement day.

Kurieuo.

[Believer]

I'm certain they believe the second coming is yet to happen, however they believe Christ's kingdom came into effect upon His ascension as is also signified by the the Holy Spirit's coming down on the day of Pentecost. It is only possible for anyone to come into God's kingdom after Christ, since as Christ taught, He was the way and noone comes to the Father except through Him.

Now as for Christ's second coming, there are many who believe Christ will return back to Earth and setup a literal kingdom in Israel for 1000 years (a millenium). On the other hand, I think Preterists believe Christ will return not to setup a kingdom already inaugurated, but to bring an end to everything and begin judgement day.

Kurieuo.

Okay, so then the second coming actually has not taken place yet? And why do you say "some" believe He will come, who are the some, the believers? It says He will come.

[Kurieuo]

No, I think there is general agreement that Christ's second coming hasn't taken place. I'm not sure what you're referring to in my writing with your second question about me saying "some" believe He will come?

Kurieuo.

[Believer]

No, I think there is general agreement that Christ's second coming hasn't taken place. I'm not sure what you're referring to in my writing with your second question about me saying "some" believe He will come?

Kurieuo.

I was just thinking of who were that some you were talking about. Like are there Christians who don't think the second coming is going to take place and other Christian believers do?

[Kurieuo]

I never said some don't believe in Christ's second coming, but to answer it anyway, it would come down to what you mean by Christian. For example, I've heard there are self-processed Atheists who call themselves Christian because they see merit to the moral standard as found in the Bible. Oprah calls herself Christian, although it clearly seems to me she is pluralistic, something which goes against Christ's teachings of Him being the only way. So what is it you mean by Christian?

Yet, I can't see how any Christian (as I understand Christian) could not believe in Christ's second coming. For it is the second coming that brings completion to everything here.

Kurieuo.

[SpiritualSon]

There are two senses of the Holy Word, the natural and spiritual.

The Lord's second coming will not in person, but in the spiritual sense of the Word, which is from Him and which He is.

We read in many passages that the Lord will come in the clouds of heaven. Matt. 17:5; 24:30; 26:64; Mark 14:62; Luke 9:34, 35; 21:27; Rev. 1:7; 14:14; Dan. 7:13. But no one up to the present has known what the clouds of heaven mean; they have thought that He would appear in them in person. It has so far been unknown that the clouds of heaven mean the Word in its literal sense, and that glory and power, with which He is to come at that time (Matt. 24:30), mean the spiritual sense of the Word.

This is because no one has even guessed that there is a spiritual sense in the Word, as there is in essence in this example. Since the Lord has now revealed too Emanuel Swedenborg the spiritual sense of the Word, and has allowed him to associate with angels and spirits in their world, as if he were one of them, it has been disclosed that the cloud of heaven means the Word in its natural sense, glory the Word in its spiritual sense, and power means the Lord's strength through the Word. This meaning of the clouds of heaven can be seen from these passages in the Word:

There is none like the God of Jeshurun, riding on the heaven, and in magnificence upon the clouds. Deut. 33:26, 27.

Sing to God, praise His name, extol Him who rides upon the clouds. Ps. 68:4.

Jehovah riding upon a light cloud. Isa. 19:1.

To ride means to instruct in Divine truths from the Word, for a horse means the understanding of the Word. Anyone can see that God does not ride upon the clouds.

Further: God rode upon the cherubim, and made the clouds of the heavens His tent. Ps. 18:10, 11.

Cherubim also mean the Word.

Jehovah binds the waters in His clouds, and stretches out His cloud over His throne. Job 26:8, 9.

Give strength to God**, strength upon the clouds. Ps.68:34,

Jehovah will create over every dwelling of Zion a cloud by day; for glory will be a covering over all. Isa. 4:5.

The Word in its literal sense was also represented by the cloud in which Jehovah came down on Mount Sinai, when He proclaimed the Law. The provisions of the Law then proclaimed were the rudiments of the Word.

The Son of man means Jesus Christ as the Word, because it was the Word that suffer the cross, and Jesus Christ is the Word.

The Word was written in correspondences, which is the spiritual sense of the Word.

all the Lord's miracles have a spiritual sense, which were Divine because they signified the various states of those with whom the church was to be set up anew by the Lord. When the blind received sight, it signified that they who had been in ignorance of truth should receive intelligence. When the deaf received hearing, it signified that they who had previously heard nothing about the Lord and the Word should hearken and obey. When the dead were raised, it signified that they who otherwise would spiritually perish would become living; and so on.

This is meant by the Lord's reply to the disciples of John, who sent them to ask whether He was the one that should come:
Tell John the things which ye do hear and see: the blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead rise again, and the poor hear the gospel (Matt. 11:3-5).
Moreover, all the miracles related in the Word contain in them such things as belong to the Lord, to heaven, and to the church. This makes these miracles Divine, and distinguishes them from those which are not Divine. These few examples are given in order to illustrate what the spiritual sense is, and to show that it is in all things of the Word and in every particular of it.

Harry

[bob2010]

preterism is the correct term for one who believes that Christ's second coming was in 70 AD.
i consider myself a preterist, but im not really into eschatology so i cant really explain all the details of it or defend it or anything.

[SpiritualSon]

preterism is the correct term for one who believes that Christ's second coming was in 70 AD.
i consider myself a preterist, but im not really into eschatology so i cant really explain all the details of it or defend it or anything.

The second coming began in the 18th century throught the person Emanuel Swedenborg. You can find him on the internet.

Harry

[bob2010]

The second coming began in the 18th century throught the person Emanuel Swedenborg. You can find him on the internet.

Harry

unfortunately that suffers from the same problem as futurism, Matt 24 and it parallels.

HelpMeGod: to answer your other question, i think that most preterists say that the rapture is a future event, so no one has been left behind.

[SpiritualSon]

The second coming began in the 18th century throught the person Emanuel Swedenborg. You can find him on the internet.

Harry

unfortunately that suffers from the same problem as futurism, Matt 24 and it parallels.

HelpMeGod: to answer your other question, i think that most preterists say that the rapture is a future event, so no one has been left behind.

bob2010,

The second coming of the Lord will not take place for the purpose of destroying the visible heaven and habitable earth, has been shown in the preceding section. That it is not for the purpose of destroying anything, but to build up, consequently not to condemn but to save those who since His first coming have believed in Him and also those who may hereafter believe in Him. The lord said He came to judge no one, God sent not His Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world through Him might be saved; he that believeth on Him is not judged, but he that believeth not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God (John 3:17, 18).

And elsewhere:
If any man hear My words and believe not, I judge him not; for I came n
ot to judge the world but to save the world: He that despiseth Me and receiveth not My words, hath one that judgeth him; the Word that I have spoken shall judge him in the last day (John 12:47-48).

God sending His Son does not mean one person sending another person equal too Himself. The Father's Son, is His Human Form. This means the Father became Man. The Divine and Human or Father and Son are one in Jesus Christ. They are not two, but one Divine Person.

Harry

[bob2010]

i think you missed the point of Matt 24. to be more specific, verse 34.

[SpiritualSon]

i think you missed the point of Matt 24. to be more specific, verse 34.

Matt. 24:34 is not about the Trinity. You are defending your beliefs, just like I am defending mine.

Matt. 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what [shall be] the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

I was once a Roman Catholic, and because I seek the truth and found it, I am now a member of the New Church (Swedenborg).

Satan shows his anger and defends his false ideas throught Catholics and Protestants, and makes them believe he is the holy spirit. Catholics and Protestants get upset when I post Swedenborg. Satan doesn't like it, especially concerning the Lord is the Divine Trinity.

I am against both the Catholic and Protestant Chruch because of their beliefs in the trinity of three Divine persons.

I am more for the Catholics than the Protestants, because they accepted good works, and believe no one can come to heaven without doing them. Good works done through Jesus Christ.

The Protestant do nothing except believe, and do nothing about their sins. If they do works, it is done for men, not God.

They believe God pays no attentions to their behavior, and that heaven is given to them on a silver platter, without any efford on their part.

They confess their sin with the mouth, but not with the heart. Their defends is that no one should judge. God said, if we judge, we should make such our judgement is true.

Harry

[bob2010]

Matt. 24:34 is not about the Trinity.

duh! thank you captian obvious. im not talking about the trinity. im talking about the rather clear timing statement in verse 34 and the second coming of Christ.

Matt. 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what [shall be] the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

34, not 3 and 4. that again is thirty-four not three and four. do i need to express that in some other manner?
"I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened." that is the problem with saying the second coming was in the 18th century or that it is yet to come.

[SpiritualSon]

Bob2010,
In speaking to His disciples about the consummation of the age (which is the last time of the church), at the end of His predictions concerning the successive changes of state in the church, the Lord says,
Immediately after the affliction of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. Then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven, and then shall all the tribes of the earth wail, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and much glory. He shall send His angels with a trumpet and a great voice, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the end of the heavens even to the end of them (Matt. 24:29-31).

By these words, in the spiritual sense, does not mean that the sun and moon would be darkened, that the stars would fall from heaven, that the Lord's sign would appear in heaven, and that He would be seen in the clouds together with angels with trumpets, but by every word is meant some spiritual thing that is of the church, concerning the state of which at its end these things were spoken.

In the spiritual sense of the Word, the "sun, which shall be darkened" means the Lord as to love.

The "moon, which shall not give her light" means the Lord as to faith.

The "stars, which shall fall from heaven" means the knowledges of what is good and true that would perish.

The "sign of the Son of man in heaven" means the Divine Truth in the Word.

The "tribes of the earth, which shall wail" means the lack of all truth that is of faith, and of all good that is of love.

The "coming of the Son of man in the clouds of heaven with power and glory" means the Lord's presence in the Word, and revelation. "

The clouds" signify the sense of the letter of the Word, and "glory," the spiritual sense of the Word.

The "angels with a trumpet and a great voice" signifies heaven whence comes Divine truth.

To "gather together the elect from the four winds, from the end of the heavens even to the end of them" signifies a newness of the church in respect to love and faith.

That there is not meant a darkening of the sun and moon, nor a falling of the stars to the earth, is very evident from the prophets, in which like things are said about the state of the church when the Lord should come into the world.

As in Isaiah:
Behold the day of Jehovah cometh, cruel, and of wrath of anger; the stars of the heavens, and the constellations thereof, shall not give their light, the sun shall be darkened in His rising, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine; I will visit upon the world its wickedness (Isa. 13:9-11; 24:21, 23).

In Joel:
The day of Jehovah cometh, a day of darkness and of thick darkness; the sun and the moon shall be blackened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining (Joel 2:1-2, 10; 3:15).

In Ezekiel:
I will cover the heavens, and blacken the stars; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine; all the luminaries of light I will make dark, and will set darkness upon thy land (Ezek. 32:7-8).

"The day of Jehovah" means His advent into the world, under the name Jesus Christ. This took place when there was no longer anything good and true left in the church, and not any knowledge of the Lord, especially the Jewish Church. In John, He came to His own, and His own receive Him not.

The sense of the letter in the Word is how men of earth see it. The Word also has a spiritual sense unknown to man, until Swedenborg. The sense of the letter is the foundation of the Word's spiritual sense. It is the Word's spiritual sense that makes it Holy and Divine.

The spiritual sense of the Word is taught by the Lord to Those who approach Him as the Divine Trinity and do His Ten Comandments, and do good works in His Holy Name.

Harry