Christians rejecting the Old Testament

[RickD]

Rev,
I'm gonna cut you a little slack because you're new here. You really need to understand the OEC interpretation before you start spouting off at the mouth.
Read this article, and you'll see some of what we're talking about:
http://www.godandscience.org/youngearth ... ation.html

Rick, you do understand that we had trees and grass and all sorts of vegetation growing before God, according to your OEC cleared the heavens so that the light was visible from the earth in order to distinguish seasons.... Did God know before then that trees and grass would need the sunlight to grow or did he just decide that one on the fly?
I wonder how they grew before then, do you think the trees had mouths and were eating bugs before then?

The Earth in it's early stages (as far as I am aware) would have been covered in a primordial cloud. Vegetation would still have covered the Earth because light would still have filtered through this primordial cloud layer.

I don't see what the issue is here, seems reasonable to me that once the cloud layer was removed the stars, sun and moon would have been more visible.

Daniel, the reason you don't see a problem with this, is because you're using reason and logic to come to this conclusion. Revolutionary on the other hand, while professing logic and reason, is so blinded by his hatred of a God that he doesn't think exists, can't see the logic if it hit him over the head.

[Danieltwotwenty]

Rev,
I'm gonna cut you a little slack because you're new here. You really need to understand the OEC interpretation before you start spouting off at the mouth.
Read this article, and you'll see some of what we're talking about:
http://www.godandscience.org/youngearth ... ation.html

Rick, you do understand that we had trees and grass and all sorts of vegetation growing before God, according to your OEC cleared the heavens so that the light was visible from the earth in order to distinguish seasons.... Did God know before then that trees and grass would need the sunlight to grow or did he just decide that one on the fly?
I wonder how they grew before then, do you think the trees had mouths and were eating bugs before then?

The Earth in it's early stages (as far as I am aware) would have been covered in a primordial cloud. Vegetation would still have covered the Earth because light would still have filtered through this primordial cloud layer.

I don't see what the issue is here, seems reasonable to me that once the cloud layer was removed the stars, sun and moon would have been more visible.

Daniel, the reason you don't see a problem with this, is because you're using reason and logic to come to this conclusion. Revolutionary on the other hand, while professing logic and reason, is so blinded by his hatred of a God that he doesn't think exists, can't see the logic if it hit him over the head.

All I hear is and very little actual thought.

[Danieltwotwenty]

I actually think Revolutionary is Lunalle reloaded, their dispositions and arguments seems strikingly similar.

[RickD]

I actually think Revolutionary is Lunalle reloaded, their dispositions and arguments seems strikingly similar.

But revolutionary uses bigger words.
And, while Lunalle comes across as harsh sometimes, I don't think it's intentional.

[Danieltwotwenty]

I actually think Revolutionary is Lunalle reloaded, their dispositions and arguments seems strikingly similar.

But revolutionary uses bigger words.
And, while Lunalle comes across as harsh sometimes, I don't think it's intentional.

True, you are the voice of reason (and logic) Rick. My paranoid fantasies are taking over again.

[RickD]

I actually think Revolutionary is Lunalle reloaded, their dispositions and arguments seems strikingly similar.

But revolutionary uses bigger words.
And, while Lunalle comes across as harsh sometimes, I don't think it's intentional.

True, you are the voice of reason (and logic) Rick. My paranoid fantasies are taking over again.

Daniel, I'll be the first to tell you, there's nothing wrong with a good paranoid fantasy from time to time.

And speaking of paranoia, when I was a kid, I walked home from school through a neighborhood where they were building houses. I used to stop and stare at the guys hammering the nails on the roofs. One of the guys that was hammering called me a paranoid little punk...in morse code.

[Revolutionary]

Rev,
I'm gonna cut you a little slack because you're new here. You really need to understand the OEC interpretation before you start spouting off at the mouth.
Read this article, and you'll see some of what we're talking about:
http://www.godandscience.org/youngearth ... ation.html

Rick, you do understand that we had trees and grass and all sorts of vegetation growing before God, according to your OEC cleared the heavens so that the light was visible from the earth in order to distinguish seasons.... Did God know before then that trees and grass would need the sunlight to grow or did he just decide that one on the fly?
I wonder how they grew before then, do you think the trees had mouths and were eating bugs before then?

The Earth in it's early stages (as far as I am aware) would have been covered in a primordial cloud. Vegetation would still have covered the Earth because light would still have filtered through this primordial cloud layer.

I don't see what the issue is here, seems reasonable to me that once the cloud layer was removed the stars, sun and moon would have been more visible.

Daniel, the reason you don't see a problem with this, is because you're using reason and logic to come to this conclusion. Revolutionary on the other hand, while professing logic and reason, is so blinded by his hatred of a God that he doesn't think exists, can't see the logic if it hit him over the head.

How classy, a moderator projecting how I have such vile hatred for God.... Does that kind of behavior make you feel better about yourself?

Great example here!

[RickD]

I actually didn't use the word "vile". But you'd know your hatred for God better than I would. So, if you say your hatred is vile, who am I to argue?
And no. Your hatred for God doesn't make me feel better about myself. I'm just as much, if not a worse sinner than you are.

[Danieltwotwenty]

Revolutionary I see you dodged my answer.

[RickD]

Reactionary I see you dodged my answer.

Daniel, did you see what you wrote here? I noticed because I made the same mistake myself. I just caught my mistake before I posted. Reactionary hasn't posted here in a while.

[Danieltwotwenty]

lol thanks Rick, fixed it. I miss Reactionary, especially his wit.

[RickD]

lol thanks Rick, fixed it. I miss Reactionary, especially his wit.

I miss him too. For someone who wrote english as a second language, his written english was much better than mine.

And Revolutionary didn't answer my question either.

[neo-x]

Rick, I get your point and I am aware of the nuance. So you are saying that exodus 20:11 also uses yom as longer periods of time?

Exodus 20:11:
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.

Yes Neo. Notice the 7th day is never bracketed by "evening and morning" in the genesis text. I believe that shows that the 7th day is ongoing.

The 7 days is a pattern. It's not meant as a literal and concrete interpretation. As I'm on my iPhone, I don't have it in front of me, but the ot talks about sabbath weeks, and sabbath years. A servant is to work for six years, then he is to be set free the 7th year. It's a pattern of 6x working, followed by 1x resting. I believe the ot also mentions working the land for 6 years, and the land should rest for the 7th year.(Leviticus 25 I believe)

Rick the context of exo 20:11 demands a single day interpretation.

"Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy."

Rick, if I substitute the word day as longer periods in these verses, it makes no sense whatsoever.

Remember the Sabbath day(long period) by keeping it holy. 9 Six long periods you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh long period is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11 For in six longer days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh longer period. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath longer period and made it holy.

Please notice that the first mention of sabbath day is a direct reference to genesis 1. Also the sabbath day is being reference here as a 24 hour day for Israel and the verse says that this was the 7th day in the original creation.

Its quite apparent, a longer period use of yom is not only inapplicable here, this reference actually implies that genesis 1 uses the same.

[Revolutionary]

I don't think that we can get "perfection" from "In God's IMAGE" as it is written in Genesis.
I don't think that the notion that Adam was perfect is anywhere to be found in Genesis.

Exactly, it still doesn't help the point.... You can't create something imperfectly as a perfect being and not have full knowledge of the outcome.
How then does a perfect being get angry and punish it because it did exactly what he knew it would do?

Suddenly God is demonstrating his own imperfection, because it's rather sadistic!

Is God's creation truly this unintelligent, or is it unintelligent because it is man's own creation in an attempt to explain God?

God gets "angry" when we do what we KNOW to be wrong.
Any parent gets that.
Foreknowledge doesn't diminish the "anger" or "pain" that a parent feels when their child knowingly chooses to do bad.
God gave Adam and Eve a choice, they were aware of the consequences and still they choose to go against God.
As we do to this very day.
God's response?
Grace given freely via Christ.
Because only love and forgiveness can heal.
Does God punish? Yes, He must if He is God ( as parents, we punish also when our children knowingly do what is wrong).
When we bring a child into this world, it is an expression of love ( or should be).
We KNOW that the child will do many wrong things, we know they are not perfect and we know we will have to be there to "pick up the pieces".
None of that matters when a child is an expression of love because the good ALWAYS outweighs the bad.
Humanity is a lot like that too.

Lets test the logic behind your Adam and Eve.... You have the same exact genetic makeup as Adam. You have the same exact influences as Adam and you are met with the same identical circumstances.... Would you have chosen differently?

[Philip]

Lets test the logic behind your Adam and Eve.... You have the same exact genetic makeup as Adam. You have the same exact influences as Adam and you are met with the same identical circumstances.... Would you have chosen differently?

No - and neither would ANYONE else. It would only be a matter of time. Only God can remain sinless. There are some things God CAN'T do: He can't do or create a logical/contradictory impossibility - He can't make a round square. And He can't create another being that has both free will and that would remain sinless. Yes, He could have made us like rocks or robots - with no decision making capability. But it is our free will and ability to make choices that make sin inevitable, without the guiding Spirit of God/Jesus within us. And, even then, until we are made FULLY perfect - and not in this life - will won't remain entirely sinless.