Rabbi performs Oral suction during circumcision

[Silvertusk]

I actually genuinely feel sick reading this thread. How it can be justified I have no idea. Is this objectively wrong....who knows but it certainly feels it.

[Danieltwotwenty]

Absolutely disgusting, it deviates from the Torah and is possibly taking a child's life.
Makes me ill just thinking about it.

[RickD]

Jac wrote:
To the OP, I don't see the ethical problem with the procedure itself. I do see an ethical problem with not taking all necessary health precautions, but I would say the same thing about a surgeon not washing his hands,

The problem is that the procedure itself is unsafe. Clean hands, and sterile equipment is safe. The human mouth vigorously sucking a baby's penis with an open and bleeding cut, is not safe. So, therefore, the procedure is not safe.



Here's evidence that shows this practice is unethical. First, I'm assuming, for the sake of the argument here, that there are no sexual overtones to this practice. The practice is not safe. There is an unnecessary risk to the health of the baby. There is no reason, other than man-made religious tradition, that this practice should be promoted. Here's a link that shows the N.Y. health chief saying that it is unhealthy.
http://www.jta.org/2012/06/07/news-opin ... -bpeh-rite
From the link:

In a strongly worded statement, Dr. Thomas Farley said that direct oral-genital suction, known as metzitzah b’peh, should not be performed during Jewish ritual circumcision. He said that several hospitals, including those serving the haredi Orthodox Jewish community, have agreed to distribute a brochure that describes the risk of contracting the herpes virus from the practice.

“There is no safe way to perform oral suction on any open wound in a newborn,” Farley said. “Parents considering ritual Jewish circumcision need to know that circumcision should only be performed under sterile conditions, like any other procedures that create open cuts, whether by mohelim or medical professionals.”

These rabbis certainly know what they're doing is not safe, yet they continue. That is unethical. The baby's health is not their primary concern.

So, if someone has no problem with a man placing his mouth over a baby's penis, and sucking vigorously, then you still can't ignore the health issue.

And while I haven't studied this religious practice in any detail, I would be surprised if there weren't any sexual overtones in this ritual.

[B. W.]

Ok,
Here's evidence that shows this practice is unethical. First, I'm assuming, for the sake of the argument here, that there are no sexual overtones to this practice. The practice is not safe. There is an unnecessary risk to the health of the baby. There is no reason, other than man-made religious tradition, that this practice should be promoted. Here's a link that shows the N.Y. health chief saying that it is unhealthy.
http://www.jta.org/2012/06/07/news-opin ... -bpeh-rite
From the link:

In a strongly worded statement, Dr. Thomas Farley said that direct oral-genital suction, known as metzitzah b’peh, should not be performed during Jewish ritual circumcision. He said that several hospitals, including those serving the haredi Orthodox Jewish community, have agreed to distribute a brochure that describes the risk of contracting the herpes virus from the practice.

“There is no safe way to perform oral suction on any open wound in a newborn,” Farley said. “Parents considering ritual Jewish circumcision need to know that circumcision should only be performed under sterile conditions, like any other procedures that create open cuts, whether by mohelim or medical professionals.”

These rabbis certainly know what they're doing is not safe, yet they continue. That is unethical. The baby's health is not their primary concern.

So, if someone has no problem with a man placing his mouth over a baby's penis, and sucking vigorously, then you still can't ignore the health issue.

And while I haven't studied this religious practice in any detail, I would be surprised if there weren't any sexual overtones in this ritual.

Your are correct Rick - it is a very sick pratice that reeks of sexual undertones - ask anyone from there States respective State Offender Management Boards. When you find justifications that cite this as the article below states

Please note the underline quote from link cited below it - as this practice developed in the Kabbalah...

In Kabbalah, the concept of metzitzah b’peh plays a very important and significant role. In the Tikunei Zohar it states that the strong correspondence between the actual bris milah and the metzitzah b’peh which follows is rooted in the very gematriya of the word milah, which is 85 or פה-peh-the mouth. Rav Chaim Vital writes that the gematriya of Hashem’s name, אלו-הים, is 86, and he expounds deeply on the correlation and the significance of that number. The mekubalim write that it sweetens all bad judgments that may be coming to a person.

Article Link Here

That underlined statement is a red flag and a very accurate indicator of some sort of pedophile influence within that segment of Kabbalah to make a statement like that: The mekubalim write that it sweetens all bad judgments that may be coming to a person.

This demonstrates the twisted justification SO's use to justify their practices. Whom does it sweeten - not the child with Herpes as they suggest...

IMHO Sex Offenders are truly demonized persons and act in a cunning manner to live out animalistic tendencies. Such folk - well you decide... after dealing with such offenders - you cannot trust them nor are such redeemable as the proverbs reveals - concerning how a dog returns to its own vomit.
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[RickD]

B. W. your linkie no workie. I think this is the link you wanted.

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

Just a thought...

...who does the suction when an adult convert to Judaism is circumcised?

FL

[RickD]

Just a thought...

...who does the suction when an adult convert to Judaism is circumcised?

FL

According to at least this link, some previously uncircumcised adults DO go through this as well:

Regarding adult Brit for conversion where the man is not previously cirucumcised at least according to some people they do. Rav Mordechai Eliyahu writes such in his sefer on Milah Ozer Eliyahu 264:4. Rav Shlomo Shochet also writes that it is necessary in his sefer Milah Shleimah, 4:29(also see the Teshuvot he brings in chapter 12 and 13). His text is the required course work for certification by the Rabbinate.

Starting to shine a little light on this isn't it?

[RickD]

And FL, before you get any cockamamie ideas, no, it wouldn't be a great place for you to meet your next male lover.

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

And FL, before you get any cockamamie ideas, no, it wouldn't be a great place for you to meet your next male lover.

''Cockamamie''...is that a play on words? Did you know that Hobart is the San Francisco of Australia?

FL

[RickD]

And FL, before you get any cockamamie ideas, no, it wouldn't be a great place for you to meet your next male lover.

''Cockamamie''...is that a play on words? Did you know that Hobart is the San Francisco of Australia?

FL

Somehow I figured you would be the one to know that.
You're familiar with San Francisco, and Hobart. You take vacations in Provincetown. And you were wondering if you convert to a "bizarre" sect of Judaism, if you could have the "benefit" of metzitzah b' peh for yourself.

FL, is there something that you need to tell us?

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

My rabbi still hasn't answered my query. ''Query''...get it?!

This is getting funnier all the time.

FL

[RickD]

From what I understand, this ritual has no sexual overtones. It is just bizarre.

FL

I just noticed this FL. You did know that "bizarre" is a synonym for "queer", right?

I'm starting to think this ritual is quite queer.

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

I'm starting to think this ritual is quite queer.

What happens when the mohel rabbi meets the pedophile priest?

FL

[RickD]

I knew it! I did a little research, and this proves what I suspected about you FL:Roger the Fairy

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

I knew it! I did a little research, and this proves what I suspected about you FL:Roger the Fairy

GREAT! I enjoyed that clip!

FL