Another theory on reality + this world, free will etc

[madscientist]

good question moshiya... well I guess that's what humanity always wondered - what is the truth?
But can the truth be defined? I think there are more truths. Some things are objective, some subjective. For example, it is true that 2+2=4 by definiton. It's also true that diamond is harder than ice. But a truth such as "Is it wrong to not like someone as much as others may be discutable. (Or maybe it's not, just an example )

But if you were asking truth as in terms of God and things it's difficult. We christians believe the truth is in Bible. And that you get to know truth as you progress in life by Holy Spirit Who guides you in your life. I however do not know how those spiritual things work and prefer explanations with metaphysics and psychology. I guess if you want to know truth, you pray to God. So at first you make a first basic assumption that God is the truth, and then continue to look for it. But Bible is not all. It's also the people you live with. Whilst some of them may lead "truthful" lives doing things that please God and tell the truth, be good friends, not cheat, not steal etc, others may just be the opposite and want you to believe their world is the "true one". The thing is - what kind of truth do you want? If one about a theory in physics or maths it's different to the "truth of life". Now what if those who lie and do all bad things tell you that what they do is wrong? They are then not lying and actually true!!

So i think you recognize truth by feeling what it is - by Holy Spirit or so if you want this explanation. By life and experiences in it you will make an image of what is truth and what is not. There are some assumptions you need to make and some "risks" to take, such as to believe in God and that He is the truth... God is also judging it... as He said He is the truth, He is the one judging what is truth and what is not. But there are still some subjective things. What is good music? Depends on the person. While someone may for example say that Beatles are the best or that London is the best city in the world, one may not. Some are facts and some opinions... As for God I don't think even God would have an answer to some of these questions!
The criteria for truth - hard question. I guess there is also some truth in what is and what isn't a criterium for truth! But i don't know... truth - something that one can consider to be so. Now that one can be you as in the example above, or others. There are some general truths such as 2+2=4. But if now I say that the symbol "+" means subtract or that "4" is actually the number after 2 then it does not apply... So we have to consider the general rules.
The personalized idea I don't know what exactly you meant - a truth which is subjective and decided on 1 person's view?

[B. W.]

dear friends,

perhaps you could answer my question, how do you recognize truth? should you not first need to know it before you can recognize? and who or what is judging it? if you do not know truth but are looking for it, then what criteria is used to accept or reject? and if it is a personalized idea that seeks to find conformation.

In math, does 1+1=2 or 75?

Truth is objective, not relative. For something to be true there is an opposite that is false in order for truth to be true.

During a College Blue Book exam in a secular Social Work class concerning relativism, the professor spent weeks on how all truth is relative to the person so naturally he placed the question in our Blue Book exam and required that our answers should be several paragraphs long explaining why truth is relative and not absolute. I wrote my answer in about 30 seconds, got up and turned in the exam and left the class while the classmates ponderously labored with the question. This was my answer:

“Jump out of an airplane stark naked, at 15 thousand feet, without a parachute over the middle of the Pacific Ocean, when one hits the water you will be absolutely dead. Therefore, all truth is not relative — there are absolutes.”

I was the only one to receive an A+ on this exam and on of the few to do so in that class. I did earn the respected title from my professors — as one with 'wild ideas' living up the classes. I simply confronted them tactfully and respectfully with biblical world views and they could not counter them.

Did I receive some persecution for this? Yes, from a few professors. That is another truth, teach Christ — persecution in various forms come.

In another class called System Theory, I did a presentation of the Diad System between men and women. Point was that men and women do think differently. I had the entire class roaring with laughter at this truth because men and women do think differently and are thus different.

You see, the professor did not teach this. He taught that there is no difference in how men and women think based on both being equal to each other and therefore they think the same. My point was both are equal but each think differently to balance each other out and thus provide equality for each other. His secular point of view of truth was that mine was anathema.

He publicly humiliated me in front of the class actually berating me. The class saw his folly. I failed that assignment. Went to him and managed to squeeze a D out of it. He deliberately lowered every test and assignment grade because I was a Christian. I did pass with a contested C for the class.

After graduating from college, I encountered him in a store where I proceeded to ask him, “you been married 3 times before and now going on your 4th divorce. Maybe you should pay attention — there are differences in how men and women think. He did not like that. Oh, well, truth is truth and is objective!

P.S. on June 4 of this year - I'll be married 20 years!
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[Marcosll]

Good of you to stand up for your beliefs. I have a big problem with relativists. In this universe things work because there are laws of physics in place. These laws are clearly defined and absolute (though we only understand a tiny fraction of them).

We can send drones to Mars and they work exactly as intended because the universe shows uniformity.

It boils down to the following:

Things are relative
Things are not relative

Relativism is mutually exclusive and you cannot have a universe that is part relative and part absolute. Lack of information does not invalidate the mechanics of the whole thing.

Another bad thing about relativists is that they can get very obscure and confusing in their logic (or lack thereof).

As for men and women being different, this is obviously so. It's ridiculous to believe we are exactly equal to each other. For instance, during intercourse a woman is penetrated and a man does the penetrating. Difference!

I do agree that as humans we should get equal rights, but physically and socially there are differences that ultimately stem from genetic differences. I don't think i'd like to live in a world where women had masculine features and acted like men (or vice versa).



madscientist: To answer your initial questions...

I prefer to think of this world as another plane of existance where we experience things we cannot in other planes. Try to imagine a life WITHOUT suffering, hunger, happiness or sadness, death, pain, joy, etc...

Imagine a heaven where there is no want, no pain, no need, no hunger, no lack of... It would be extremely dull.

If anything, the world teaches us that having everything doesn't make you happy. How can you appreciate the good things without having experienced the bad? If all you ever knew was good there is no way you could appreciate it. You would be ungrateful.

[madscientist]

Hehe nice answer B.w.! BTW what you studied as your major? Yes I have heard of those people who on their exam have like 2 hours; while everyone writes they do something in half a minute and get the best grade! that's sweet, but only if it works... one can also risk having the worst grade if his answer is not what the examiner expects. Now see if marking is relative - subjective, because one may consider it right or wrong - is there "truth" as to whether it's right or wrong? Now I may slightly disagree with your statement - maybe if you DO know how to jump you may survive. Someone jumped from like 100th floor some months ago and he did manage to survive! Was on concrete or so, but, he did manage to survive. Now why cannot one survive if he falls to the ocean? So see, I'd say this is relative. Now of course, if one is "absolutely dead" - again, can one be partly dead?? Did you mean as this will absolutely happen or that your death will be absolute? Now that could be a language problem as there seems to be some ambiguity. Again, an ambiguous sentence or statement - right or wrong? Depends how one looks at it.

I also would like to mention that although God is infinitely intelligent, there are questions He could not give us answers to, nor say whether it is good or wrong. Consider "Is it harmful to drink alcohol?" - humans would say yes, but God may not want to be so biased on this. Apparently with drinking one's liver has a higher chance of regenerating after a disease (not afflicted by drinking of course ). Or "would I be happier if I were born in America?" - there is no answer to this I guess, just because I am not specific enough. Yes or no. That's another thing I spent quite a long time thinking about, and realized that if this is the outcome of the consequences then any other "what would be if" are absurd simply because they did not occur, and due to chance the situation could have turned out completely different. Even God would not know what to say.

Statement "everything is relative" - true or false? heard that it is an absolutism as everything means it's absolute, hence a paradox and is false! Now i think a problem is language. What's relative and absolute? If we say it's absolutely true God loves us - what does the word "absolute" mean? Now if we use definitions, then I believe that yes, we can say some statements are relative and absolute, depending on what one defines by a statement and what use of words one considers.

Yeah apparently men and women do think differently. Don't know what exactly the difference but it's biology. Now i also had this argument about men and women equally - he kept on saying women are inferior to men, that they always wanted to be like men and therefore admit to be inferior - hence, they are inferior. I did not like all of his theory, but it's true (absolute/relative - whatever! ) that in biology men seem to be superior, they decide about things, they have to search for partners, they are stronger etc. Women take care of the young etc. Now God said women and men are equal but then why should woman submit to man and man to God and not man to woman also?? And also, why is it Bible talks mostly about men and little of women? For example, what's Virgin Mary's family tree? We know Joseph's, but not hers... Men were the ones who seemed to rule the women... even in the old times.

Marcosll - yeah but then if heaven has no pain in it only joy - it must be possible. Also when Adam had not sinned first - he was happy etc. So yes, looks like a world with happiness only does exist. But also - it's often that in order to feel happiness, one must feel some sort of down. For example, I have felt quite happy and relieved today. WHy? I have lost my bag with all my important stuff in it! Then I was soo disappointed, stressed etc for about 21 hours. Thinking about it etc. But then I hear it's been found - so already there was this nice feeling of joy and relief. This was maybe only possible had the bag with stuff been lost in the first place. But then - does it mean everytime we have joy we must have some sort of fear or down first? That then means that if one wants to be happy one also needs to be sad? Well then if those equal out there is no real happiness. So i don't know. It looks like the greater fear and unhappiness there is first, the greater the joy to follow. But is this always so?? I wonder. Now if someone wants to be happy without having to be sad first...
"Without war there is no peace" - what a statement... peace would not have the meaning it does. If one knows what's war, one knows peace.

Yeah I guess happiness is simply "having our desires fulfilled". I thought of this universal (absolute ) theory that every being with a soul does have desires, and is happy if these are fulfilled - regardless whether they are eternal or not. Why someone is not happy is because he then becomes dissatisfied and has new desires which are to be met - but basically, happiness is the measure of how much of our desires are fulfilled. If one has no desires, it means he can't really have joy. Well then there's mind altering drugs or stuff when we feel happy but can't explain why but that's something else I guess (else but similar)
A life without any of those feelings is really the life of a plant or bacterium - no soul

[B. W.]

Hehe nice answer B.w.! BTW what you studied as your major? Yes I have heard of those people who on their exam have like 2 hours; while everyone writes they do something in half a minute and get the best grade! that's sweet, but only if it works... one can also risk having the worst grade if his answer is not what the examiner expects.,,,

Yes, at that time, after all I put up with, I just did not care about the grade and I did not have much else to say! My Major is in Social Work - field of study - Criminal Justice and counseling.

I was ill this morning but feeling a bit better this evening. I look over your post...

Blessings to you!!
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[moshiya]

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