Exodus International?

[Alpha~Omega]

So I heard that they were closing their ministry.

Does anyone know why?

[Ivellious]

Exodus International disbanded earlier this summer. Their leader presented an apology and cited a desire to move into a new realm of Christian ministry, and I believe he has openly stated that he and many of his fellow Exodus International leaders came to the conclusion that their focus on homosexual-conversion therapy was both wrong and potentially very damaging to some people (points I happen to agree with, for the record). Ultimately, they wanted to focus on something new within the world of ministry.

As far as I know, the closing of the main organization technically changes nothing with the individual chapters themselves. If they want to continue their anti-gay crusade, they are free to do so as long as they stop claiming affiliation with Exodus International.

[Kurieuo]

A peripheral search will turn up links like: http://wespeaklove.org/exodus/

But the media relished the story over here in Australia, so...

What is it you wish to discuss AO?

[Ivellious]

Mr. Chambers gives quite a speech, I really enjoyed listening to him. I may not agree with all of his beliefs, but he seems like a very genuine and honestly remorseful man.

On a side note, he references Lord of the Rings in his farewell speech. That is pretty awesome.

[Alpha~Omega]

Oh, I am just curious as to how the process to end their ministry came about I mean...

I diden't really know what sort of tactics they employed to try to help people who truly desired to fight against their homosexual desires.

I don't really think that the manner in which they went about it is the Godly way to deal with struggles such as these. It seems that people may struggle against it all their lives. Do you think that people really do that? I did not get a chance to read many testimonies on Exodus. Do you think that by them closing down and essentially saying " we were wrong", that it may bring into question peoples testimonies?

Help me delve into this!

Ivellious, Lord of the rings is an awesome thing to reference lol.

[B. W.]

Oh, I am just curious as to how the process to end their ministry came about I mean...

I diden't really know what sort of tactics they employed to try to help people who truly desired to fight against their homosexual desires.

I don't really think that the manner in which they went about it is the Godly way to deal with struggles such as these. It seems that people may struggle against it all their lives. Do you think that people really do that? I did not get a chance to read many testimonies on Exodus. Do you think that by them closing down and essentially saying " we were wrong", that it may bring into question peoples testimonies?

Help me delve into this!

Ivellious, Lord of the rings is an awesome thing to reference lol.

Basically, you can sum it up in Isaiah's statement, when in ancient Israel, the court system of its era was used to uphold the worship of idols and justifying the things God warns about doing...

Isaiah 59-:14-15 NLT, Our courts oppose the righteous, and justice is nowhere to be found. Truth stumbles in the streets, and honesty has been outlawed.15 Yes, truth is gone, and anyone who renounces evil is attacked. The Lord looked and was displeased to find there was no justice.

Basically, with the 2nd regathering of of the Jewish people back into their own land and the current state of the world, we must be entering the last days. Being Sardis and Laodicean like has become the expected norm in the western churches and the pounding from the courts has much to do with this and the sway of worldly popularism corrupts, amazingly, all foretold centuries ago.

EI used - Reparative Therapy known as Conversion Therapy - you may want to search for that on the web from the link from Princeton University below

http://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/ ... erapy.html

From the Article you will notice it says...

The American Psychiatric Association states that political and moral debates over the integration of gays and lesbians into the mainstream of American society have obscured scientific data about changing sexual orientation "by calling into question the motives and even the character of individuals on both sides of the issue."

Notice the word - political - used and think of the court system as being used by militant homosexuals to sue christian organizations and now privet business owning citizens and you'll uncover the main reason. Sign of the times.

More on this therapy technique below...

Reparative therapy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_therapy

Reparative therapy has been used as a synonym for conversion therapy generally, but Jack Drescher has argued that strictly speaking it refers to a specific kind of therapy associated with Elizabeth Moberly and Joseph Nicolosi. Joseph Nicolosi's Reparative Therapy of Male Homosexuality, published in 1991, introduced reparative therapy as a term for psychotherapeutic attempts to convert gay people to heterosexuality.

Douglas C. Haldeman writes that Nicolosi promotes psychoanalytic theories suggesting that homosexuality is a form of arrested psychosexual development, resulting from "an incomplete bond and resultant identification with the same-sex parent, which is then symbolically repaired in psychotherapy".

Nicolosi’s intervention plans involve conditioning a man to a traditional masculine gender role. He should " participate in sports activities, avoid activities considered of interest to homosexuals, such [as] art museums, opera, symphonies, avoid women unless it is for romantic contact, increase time spent with heterosexual men in order to learn to mimic heterosexual male ways of walking, talking, and interacting with other heterosexual men, Attend church and join a men’s church group, attend reparative therapy group to discuss progress, or slips back into homosexuality, become more assertive with women through flirting and dating, begin heterosexual dating, engage in heterosexual intercourse, enter into heterosexual marriage, and father children".

Nicolosi's "A Parent's Guide to Preventing Homosexuality" clarifies that Haldeman's interpretation of his work, cited above, is inaccurate; Nicolosi explains that some males are temperamentally more sensitive and esthetically oriented and can never be expected to act in a way that is stereotypically masculine. As Nicolosi says, "A gender-nonconforming boy CAN be sensitive, kind, social, artistic, gentle--and heterosexual. He can be an artist, an actor, a dancer, a cook, a musician--and a heterosexual. These innate artistic skills are 'who he is,' part of the wonderful range of human abilities. No one should try to discourage those abilities and traits." Nicolosi adds, "With appropriate masculine affirmation and support, however, they can all be developed within the context of normal heterosexual manhood."

Most mental health professionals consider reparative therapy discredited, but it is still practiced by some. In fact, former American Psychological Association presidents Robert Perloff and Nicholas Cummings have both been Keynote Speakers at recent NARTH conferences and have strongly decried the efforts of the major professional associations, in their opinion, to marginalize reparative therapists and allegedly promote gay activism instead of scientific impartiality.

Psychoanalysts critical of Nicolosi's theories have offered gay-affirmative approaches as an alternative to reparative therapy. Exodus International regarded reparative therapy as a useful tool to eliminate "unwanted same-sex attraction" but ceased activities in June 2013 and issued a statement repudiating its aims and apologizing for the harm the organization had caused to LGBT people.

Reparative therapy is a psychotherapeutic tool a mix of Freudian psychoanalysis techniques and Behavior Modification. Both are secular and thus most likely one of the factors for failure as well as the large scale behavioral modification techniques amassed on western culture that changed society through film, media, and in public schools over the years and codified in the court systems.

I find it odd how Reparative therapy techniques failed with EI yet so very successful when used to influence and train society to except moral depravity as norm and good. Maybe, it was the court system, like Pavlov's Bell ringing loud loud and clear, threatening endless lawsuits, to make the masses complaint to the whims of those who desire absolute control and dominance overall.

Isaiah was right

Isa 59:14-15
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[Kurieuo]

I don't know about Exodus itself, how it was run, the people who were a part of it and the like.

Certainly, I think there is nothing wrong with wanting to help homosexual people stop committing sinful acts any more than helping Christians (and we're talking about Christians here) band together to stop any other kind of sin.

It seems to me, from Alan Chamber's words, that where Exodus may have gone wrong is in some kind of rigid works-based soteriology. That is, if you are "living a life of sin then you can't be Christian" type of mentality. Such that, God will spew you out of His mouth because he doesn't like lukewarmness, etc, etc. So perhaps some message of abstaining from acting on homosexual feelings or even having such feelings, was being preached as contrary to being Christian. This turns it into a soterilogical issue, which is extremely wrong theologically and even anti-Christian and anti-Gospel.

I really don't know if Exodus saw things this way, but I am certainly acquainted with such graceless "well-meaning" Christians and churches who teach and somehow think themselves righteous or holier than thou. Given my understanding of Scripture, the judgmental nature of such self "white-washed" Christians will incur much more severe judgement from God.

But sadly, it seems certain Exodus leaders, particularly Chambers, have seen the errors of such a non-grace works-based salvation, and now gone the direct opposite extreme... such that it seems like he embraces homosexual acts as something fine and dandy. He's now erring, but on the other end. And Christians (not non-Christians) should strive to love God with all their heart, mind and soul...

[Kurieuo]

Re: any testimonies, and one's personal life and relationship with God... that is their own journey and between them and God -- not between them, Exodus and God.

It is perhaps even irrelevant since such has no bearing on a person's salvation or an authentic Christianity. That is, since Jesus bypasses any acts due to our physical weaknesses and instead goes straight for our heart's desire and inner most being.