ALLAH (GOD)

[ochotseat]

So do I take that to mean that our god is different to the jewish god then?

The Jewish God is an incomplete version of God, because it lacks Jesus and the Holy Spirit. We must consider God in all his glory, and that's the Triune God.

God splintered the tribes of israel. he sent them in different directions. did this provide the assorted religions of today?

They probably existed before that, because from what I've read, those tribes consisted only of Hebrews. Also, when Moses freed his people and led the tribes to the promised land, the ancient Egyptians, who were also Semites, had their own religion.

[bizzt]

So do I take that to mean that our god is different to the jewish god then?

The Jewish God is an incomplete version of God, because it lacks Jesus and the Holy Spirit. We must consider God in all his glory, and that's the Triune God.

God splintered the tribes of israel. he sent them in different directions. did this provide the assorted religions of today?

They probably existed before that, because from what I've read, those tribes consisted only of Hebrews. Also, when Moses freed his people and led the tribes to the promised land, the ancient Egyptians, who were also Semites, had their own religion.

OC do you really think the Jewish God was incomplete to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David, Isaiah, Daniel etc... Come on now God has never changed and remains the same from Past to Present to Future!

[Felgar]

OC do you really think the Jewish God was incomplete to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David, Isaiah, Daniel etc... Come on now God has never changed and remains the same from Past to Present to Future!

I agree - the same God saved them and saves us. God is eternal and so is His nature.

[Deborah]

OC do you really think the Jewish God was incomplete to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David, Isaiah, Daniel etc... Come on now God has never changed and remains the same from Past to Present to Future!

I think it means understanding of god is incomplete or something.
But Abraham is the father of the jewish, christian and islamic nations.
and Abrahams god is our god, therefore the three faiths are based on the same god, it's the understanding of who god is and what he is like that differs.

[Judah]

But Abraham is the father of the jewish, christian and islamic nations.
and Abrahams god is our god, therefore the three faiths are based on the same god, it's the understanding of who god is and what he is like that differs.

At what point does someone's "understanding of who God is and what he is like", when it differs from that which we can read about God in the Scriptures, become a false god and an idol?

I think the answer to that question is the one that must decide between our Christian God and any other god, including Allah, being the true God... or another religion's god being some incomplete representation of the true God.

Here is a quote from Dr Mark A. Gabriel in his book Islam and the Jews:

The original source for the prophet Muhammad's stories about Abraham and the other prophets is the Bible. I do not think the Qur'an is a new revelation from the same God who inspired the Bible. One reason is that the Qur'an and the Bible are often contradictory. I do not think God would choose to give new information that would contradict the record that He has established thousands of years earlier.

The god Muhammad proclaimed does not exist. Muhammad's revelations came from demons. The name Allah was used in pre-Islam Arabia to refer to one of the 360 idols in Kaaba. Allah was supposed to be the greatest god. Some tribes used the name to refer to the moon god.

I believe that Muhammad presented stories and principles from Scripture as part of his strategy to win over Jews and Christians. If he built his new religion on the foundation of Judaism and Christianity, he could get more converts.

So why are there differences between the Qur'an and the Bible? I believe that Muhammad introduced differences that he felt would support Islam. I think he truly expected the Jews to accept these changes. They did not.

Dr Gabriel's credentials:
Bachelor's, master's, and doctorate degrees in Islamic History and Culture from Al-Azhar University, Cairo, Egypt, Graduating second in his class of six thousand students for his bachelor's degree. This ranking was based on cumulative scores or oral and written exams given at the end of each school year, One of the youngest lecturers ever hired at Al-Azhar University. He started lecturing after he finished his master's degree and was working to finish his doctorate, Traveling lecturer. The university sent him to countries around the Middle East as a lecturer in Islamic history, Served as the imam at a mosque in the Cairo suburbs, Later Gabriel became a Christian and pursued a Christian education which include: Discipleship Training School with Youth With A Mission in Cape Town, South Africa, Master's degree in World Religion from Florida Christian University in Orlando, Florida (2001), Doctorate degree in Christian Education from Florida Christian University in Orland, Florida (2002), Induction as a fellow in the Oxford Society of Scholars, September 2003.

The account in the Bible of our Christian God and who He is, and the account of Allah in the Qur'an, demonstrates very clearly and without a doubt that the two cannot possibly be one and the same.

Allah does not even come close as another person's "understanding of who god is and what he is like" when compared to our Christian God.

[Ark~Magic]

The god Muhammad proclaimed does not exist. Muhammad's revelations came from demons.

LOL!!!

Allah does not even come close as another person's "understanding of who god is and what he is like" when compared to our Christian God.

True. Same goes for Jehovah's Witness and Mormonism.
Mohammed did [poop] to save people, he was just desperate and wanted an excuse to have many wives, power, and a glorified legacy, since he came from a ****ty life.

Any minor positive aspects that were present in Islam and the Koran were already pulled off before in the Bible and with much more grace and wisdom (just look at the teachings of Christ and his sacrifice).

[Deborah]

In all fairness to Jehovah's Witness's, they were the first faith group to stand up to Hitler and say NO! In fact many died standing firm by their beliefs, but it is not widely known.
I found this last year when I did research on the Holicoust.

For Their Religious Belief, They Stood Firm
Every European country, even Germany, had those who did not believe in the Nazi ideology and who were willing to die for their beliefs. Perhaps no other group stood so firmly in their beliefs as the Jehovah Witnesses. Hitler felt particularly threatened by this strong group of Christians because they, from the very beginning, refused to recognize any God other than Jehovah. When asked to sign documents of loyalty to the Nazi ideology, they refused. Jehovah Witnesses were forced to wear purple armbands and thousands were imprisoned as "dangerous" traitors because they refused to take a pledge of loyalty to the Third Reich..

There were 11 million victims of the holicoust not 6.
6 million Polish People died durring this time.
3 Million Christian
3 Million Jewish.

Heinrich Himmler stated "All Poles will disappear from the world.... It is essential that the great German people should consider it as its major task to destroy all Poles."
Who remembers the other 5 million, were they not just as important to God as 6 million Jews!

The Holocaust is usually taught as the mass genocide of almost six million Jews in Europe during World War II. But, more than five million others were also persecuted, tortured, tattooed and killed. These five million included innocent citizens - men women and children. The survivors and the families of these five million often feel left out -- overshadowed by the Jewish casualties. Nonetheless, these people need to be recognized and memorialized. Many of these died for their race or their beliefs. Many of these died while helping their Jewish neighbors. They too deserve their place in history.

http://www.holocaustforgotten.com/non-jewishvictims.htm

[Judah]

People of all religions throughout history have stood firm by their beliefs, died for them, and done good things (and some bad) in the name of them... JWs included.
But that in itself does not say that their beliefs are true ones.
Both Jews and Islamic fundamentalists die for their beliefs but does that make their beliefs the true ones?

I think you have introduced a red herring, Deborah.

There are a lot of good people with a huge array of differing beliefs, and a lot of martyrs of all faiths, but there is still only one true God and only one way to come to Him.
John 14:6: Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me".

[ochotseat]

OC do you really think the Jewish God was incomplete to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David, Isaiah, Daniel etc...

You just answered your own question. God as a single god was sufficient for the Hebrews in the BC era. When it was clear that God had to die for man's sins later on, he came to Earth as Christ during the AD age. Hence, a belief in just one part of the Trinity has been insufficient.

[Deborah]

I think you have introduced a red herring, Deborah.

merly saying I have a new respect for Jw's.
I had alot to do with them growing up, I remember being dragged along to their meetings durring the holidays when I stayed with friends.
I have never agreed with their teachings, but learning this gave me a respect for their beliefs and their right to believe.
It is their right to believe as they do, right or wrong, just as it is my right to believe as I do.
Remember in the word it says that god want's all his children to come to him in their own time.
It is my understanding that we are all children of god, he loves us all unconditionally. He is just waiting for his children to grow in maturity and understanding of him. It is a good thing he is patient.
Of course there is not way to god but through Jesus, It was gods sacrifice for us his children, that he came in human form and sacrificed himself.
He asked Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaic, he tested him to find he was obediant. The angel of the LORD said don't harm the lad and god provided another sacrifice in his place. Gen 22 For his loyalty god made Abraham father of all nations. The God provided himself as Jesus the altimate sacrifice for all, including the future generations.

I have never said that I believe any way besides the way the LORD god set for us to live was the right way. He set the steps so magnificently adding the Role Model of Jesus for us to live by. but he also says he is patient.
their is not other way that the way the lord commands, our burden is to follow the correct path, and continue to do so by following his instructions with all due care and attention.
Remember we don't deserve to be saved, it is his grace that will save us.

[ochotseat]

merly saying I have a new respect for Jw's.

Because they have their own version of the Bible and disbelieve the Triune God by advancing their radical theory that God created Jesus?
You attribute the grandiosity of JWs to their opposition to Naziism. Actually, they were initially neutral toward Hitler's administration. They only started resisting it once they became persecuted for their religious beliefs (JWs are barred from pledging allegiance to a nation, serving in the military, or holding political office---all of which enraged the fascist Nazis).

There were 11 million victims of the holicoust not 6.

6 million is the number of Jewish victims. About 12 million died in the Holocaust. The victims were very diverse: some Protestant and Catholic clergy, Jews, gypsies, Slavs, homosexuals, handicapped people, Jehovah Witnesses, etc.

[Deborah]

Code: Select all

6 million is the number of Jewish victims. About 12 million died in the Holocaust. The victims were very diverse: some Protestant and Catholic clergy, Jews, gypsies, Slavs, homosexuals, handicapped people, Jehovah Witnesses, etc

yes and non of this is widely known.
I have seen their bible and don't see where it differers for my old king James. If you know the scriptures that are different please quote them.
Because I heard this but I could not find how it differed.

No Orchotseat. I had a particularly bad experience with them that is where my new respect for them comes in.
I have always known the teachings where wrong, even when I did not have the faith I have today, and I did not appreciate it being shoved down my throat.
I remember telling my parents, and them saying, oh well it can't hurt. But I do believe that to be wrong. I do not believe religious teaching should be forced on any young person. I don't like the way they do things, I don't believe that the Lord god wanted us to doorknock.
I believe he intended us to live and lead by example to create the interest that would bring others to us not the other way around.

[ochotseat]

I have seen their bible and don't see where it differers for my old king James. If you know the scriptures that are different please quote them.
Because I heard this but I could not find how it differed..

Stermind quoted a verse. Here's some more proof:

http://www.biblebelievers.com/jmelton/jw.html

[Deborah]

I have seen their bible and don't see where it differers for my old king James. If you know the scriptures that are different please quote them.
Because I heard this but I could not find how it differed..

Stermind quoted a verse. Here's some more proof:

http://www.biblebelievers.com/jmelton/jw.html

thanks, I have always wanted to find the difference in scripture.
So thankyou.

[bizzt]

OC do you really think the Jewish God was incomplete to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David, Isaiah, Daniel etc...

You just answered your own question. God as a single god was sufficient for the Hebrews in the BC era. When it was clear that God had to die for man's sins later on, he came to Earth as Christ during the AD age. Hence, a belief in just one part of the Trinity has been insufficient.

Then you are saying Jesus never was but I say to you JOHN 1:1. As I said Before the Same God rules both Past Present and Future my Friend.