Quantum mechanics debunks god?

[Baltazorg]

According to quantum mechanics matter doesn't exist independent of observation but rather as a spread out wave of probabilities of where it could be. If god is a conscious observer then the same rules should apply. However if god in all of his omniscience were to observe everything in the universe then the Heisenberg uncertainty principle should not have been discovered since the universe would be under the constant observation of god and particles would not take up the form of a wave of probabilities. I have heard the resolution that god uses the observations of every conscious observer since anything beyond that doesnt exist independent of their observation. However doesn't this compromise god's omnipotence in the process since not every event is recorded by conscious observers? If this is the case then how would god possibly cause events in the past or other parts of the universe to occur without conscious observers? Should we assume that god fills in the gaps in his knowledge by observing events not recorded by his creation?

[Ivellious]

There's a lot of questions here, but I think you could easily answer all of them at once. You can't apply the supernatural (in this case, God) to a purely natural scientific theory (quantum mechanics) and expects everything to perfectly match up. So no, I don't think that quantum mechanics does anything to directly disprove God...after all, by the definition of omnipotence, couldn't God just fix this problem himself if he so wanted, and make his observation of matter immune to that particular principle of the theory?

[bippy123]

According to quantum mechanics matter doesn't exist independent of observation but rather as a spread out wave of probabilities of where it could be. If god is a conscious observer then the same rules should apply. However if god in all of his omniscience were to observe everything in the universe then the Heisenberg uncertainty principle should not have been discovered since the universe would be under the constant observation of god and particles would not take up the form of a wave of probabilities. I have heard the resolution that god uses the observations of every conscious observer since anything beyond that doesnt exist independent of their observation. However doesn't this compromise god's omnipotence in the process since not every event is recorded by conscious observers? If this is the case then how would god possibly cause events in the past or other parts of the universe to occur without conscious observers? Should we assume that god fills in the gaps in his knowledge by observing events not recorded by his creation?

quantum mechanics leans more by far towards evidence for God then against him. IN fact Richard Conn Henry is observer dependent and since none of us were around to observe the universe into existence, there had to be a being immensly more powerful then anything we could imagine to cause this.

In fact it was quantum mechanics that caused Former atheist phycisist Richard Conn Henry to abandon atheism for deism.

http://www.uncommondescent.com/intellig ... -designer/

To begin, I point out this essay in the prestigious scientific journal Nature in 2005 by physicist Richard Conn Henry:

“The ultimate cause of atheism, Newton asserted, is ‘this notion of bodies having, as it were, a complete, absolute and independent reality in themselves.’”
…
The 1925 discovery of quantum mechanics solved the problem of the Universe’s nature. Bright physicists were again led to believe the unbelievable — this time, that the Universe is mental.
…
According to Sir James Jeans: “the stream of knowledge is heading towards a non-mechanical reality; the Universe begins to look more like a great thought than like a great machine. Mind no longer appears to be an accidental intruder into the realm of matter…we ought rather hail it as the creator and governor of the realm of matter.”
….
The Universe is immaterial — mental and spiritual.

Richard Conn Henry
The Mental Universe: Nature Volume 436

Now we are beginning to see that quantum mechanics might actually exclude any possibility of mind-independent reality….

Why do people cling with such ferocity to belief in a mind-independent reality? It is surely because if there is no such reality, then ultimately (as far as we can know) mind alone exists. And if mind is not a product of real matter, but rather is the creator of the illusion of material reality (which has, in fact, despite the materialists, been known to be the case, since the discovery of quantum mechanics in 1925), then a theistic view of our existence becomes the only rational alternative to solipsism.

Richard Conn Henry and Stephen R. Palmquist
Journal of Scientific Exploration Issue 21-3

So does Henry posit a Deity? In his review of the book Quantum Enigma:Physics Encounters Consciousness Henry offers the following:

It is more than 80 years since the discovery of quantum mechanics gave us the most fundamental insight ever into our nature: the overturning of the Copernican Revolution, and the restoration of us human beings to centrality in the Universe.

And yet, have you ever before read a sentence having meaning similar to that of my preceding sentence? Likely you have not, and the reason you have not is, in my opinion, that physicists are in a state of denial…
….
In his Gifford lectures, very shortly after the 1925 discovery of quantum mechanics, Arthur Stanley Eddington (who immediately quantum mechanics was discovered realized that this meant that the universe was purely mental, and that indeed there was no such thing as “physical”) said “it is difficult for the matter-of-fact physicist to accept the view that the substratum of everything is of mental character.” What an understatement! On this fundamental topic, physicists are mostly terrified wimps.

And what are these “terrors” that prevent the acceptance of the obvious? I think it is a combination of the fear of being ridiculed, plus the fear of the religious implications. Does that sound familiar?
….
When, not so long ago, I grew baffled that there was no concise and clear public statement concerning the most important philosophical discovery, ever, in the history of science; and, I decided, therefore, that I must make such a public statement myself and I did so, in an essay in Nature, “The mental Universe,” I knew that no such negative response could possibly occur in my case, because of the fine character of my great university;

….
“Quantum Enigma” only mentions the quantum Zeno effect in passing, which surprises me. Despite their timidity, it is quite clear that our shivering authors know darned well that mind is central and nothing shows the truth of that more clearly than does the quantum Zeno effect.
….

For an atheist such as myself, the result is simultaneously enormous, and minor. I have made the leap of faith that MY mind is not the universe: well, you will not be surprised to learn that I sure don’t accept that YOURS is! So, I am forced to meet the Great omniscient Spirit, GoS. How do you do! Pleased to meet you! I am here not at all joking; as I go for my hour of walking each day, I not infrequently hold hands with GoS.

You can see what I mean by “enormous.” Of fundamental importance to me. But minor at the same time, because that is the end of it. The first ten Presidents of the United States were all Deists, not Christians. As was Lincoln. I join them in that belief.



Richard Conn Henry
Review Quantum Enigma

As you can see Conn Henry no wbelieves in a creative deity but instead of the God of revelation he calls it GOS ( Great omniscient Spirit), and Conn Henry like antony flew came to belief in God purely from the scientific evidence alone. Of course he doesnt take into account the historicity of Christ and the resurrection which would show to him that our God is personal God , and that is what seperates his deism from our theistic Christian views. He is a deist like my uncle is who lives overseas. He argues with my older bro about deism versus theism, but he wont bring that up to me, as i would clean his clock lol

[Danieltwotwenty]

There's a lot of questions here, but I think you could easily answer all of them at once. You can't apply the supernatural (in this case, God) to a purely natural scientific theory (quantum mechanics) and expects everything to perfectly match up. So no, I don't think that quantum mechanics does anything to directly disprove God...after all, by the definition of omnipotence, couldn't God just fix this problem himself if he so wanted, and make his observation of matter immune to that particular principle of the theory?

I came to write exactly what Ivel wrote, it's nice to have thinking atheists here.

Thumbs up Ivel

[neo-x]

There's a lot of questions here, but I think you could easily answer all of them at once. You can't apply the supernatural (in this case, God) to a purely natural scientific theory (quantum mechanics) and expects everything to perfectly match up. So no, I don't think that quantum mechanics does anything to directly disprove God...after all, by the definition of omnipotence, couldn't God just fix this problem himself if he so wanted, and make his observation of matter immune to that particular principle of the theory?

I came to write exactly what Ivel wrote, it's nice to have thinking atheists here.

Thumbs up Ivel

Hear hear!

[1over137]

Why some poeple are so quick to think that consciousness collapses quantum mechanical states?

[Thadeyus]

Why some people are so quick to think that consciousness collapses quantum mechanical states?

I would hazard a guess that it's the 'Lay-mans' translation' that usually happens between the Physicists who know what's going on and the reporters/journalists/communicators who are disseminating said information.

It's any interaction, is it not?

*Speaking from a layperson's side of things*

[1over137]

Physicist do not know what is going on either. But thanks to weak measurements we may have some glimpse. Well, am not updated on the achievements, though