Can of worms time.

[Silvertusk]

Agree with most of that and well said - except I believe God does not stand outside of time with the creation but is now part of time until time ends (which is probably never will now) - then he will be timeless again.

Silvertusk, how about let's just simply say that God is not limited by time - time which HE created. And He can and continuously does interact with man in real time. God is not hindered or controlled by any parameter that exists, as not only did He create them, but if He was limited by them, He could not be God - certainly, not as He is described in Scripture.

Sorry. Just being ficicious. In a funny mood. Totally agree with you.

[pat34lee]

Ok this might be a little contraversial but lets have it then.

What is the reason why YEC's believe that the Universe is 10,000 or 6000 years old apart from a literal interpretation of the Bible? What evidence is there from a general revelation point of view - or from natural theology if you were that shows that the world is only 6000 years old?

At the stellar scale, every spiral universe is young. No matter how near or far away, they are all still perfect spirals, which would not be the case after they spin around a few times. Stars are going supernova at a rate of about 30 per second, yet we do not see the results of millions of supernovae.

Sinkholes. As we have been seeing lately, these are popping up everywhere. Where are all of the older sinkholes? All of the sea floors are young. The mountains are young. We would all be dead from damage to our DNA by natural radiation and UV long before even one million years. Man-made radiation is likely to kill us a lot faster.

[PaulSacramento]

Ok this might be a little contraversial but lets have it then.

What is the reason why YEC's believe that the Universe is 10,000 or 6000 years old apart from a literal interpretation of the Bible? What evidence is there from a general revelation point of view - or from natural theology if you were that shows that the world is only 6000 years old?

They have good theological reasons, I have no reason to doubt that the early writers of Genesis thought exactly what was written, and I'm sure Moses held the same view. 6000 years is at least not object-able from within the bible, therefore theologically it has no problems. Science does not agree and they think that science that differs from scriptures is not good science, as long as they can have one valid objection to it, it means its wrong. Though creation scientists often give lectures or books explaining the entire 4 billion part history in a span of 6000 years. Its hard to do and many questions in between but they do it nonetheless.

While I agree that there is a very good possibility that Moses viewed Genesis as literal, there is no evidence that ANY ancient person thought the world was only X number of years old.
That said, the "lineages" of Genesis were probably viewed as direct and unbroken dating back to Adam and Eve BUT that would have only given them a "date" based on when Adam and Eve left Eden and NOT for the creation of the world.

[1over137]

At the stellar scale, every spiral universe is young. No matter how near or far away, they are all still perfect spirals, which would not be the case after they spin around a few times. Stars are going supernova at a rate of about 30 per second, yet we do not see the results of millions of supernovae.

Sinkholes. As we have been seeing lately, these are popping up everywhere. Where are all of the older sinkholes? All of the sea floors are young. The mountains are young. We would all be dead from damage to our DNA by natural radiation and UV long before even one million years. Man-made radiation is likely to kill us a lot faster.

Can you give us some references?

[neo-x]

Ok this might be a little contraversial but lets have it then.

What is the reason why YEC's believe that the Universe is 10,000 or 6000 years old apart from a literal interpretation of the Bible? What evidence is there from a general revelation point of view - or from natural theology if you were that shows that the world is only 6000 years old?

They have good theological reasons, I have no reason to doubt that the early writers of Genesis thought exactly what was written, and I'm sure Moses held the same view. 6000 years is at least not object-able from within the bible, therefore theologically it has no problems. Science does not agree and they think that science that differs from scriptures is not good science, as long as they can have one valid objection to it, it means its wrong. Though creation scientists often give lectures or books explaining the entire 4 billion part history in a span of 6000 years. Its hard to do and many questions in between but they do it nonetheless.

While I agree that there is a very good possibility that Moses viewed Genesis as literal, there is no evidence that ANY ancient person thought the world was only X number of years old.
That said, the "lineages" of Genesis were probably viewed as direct and unbroken dating back to Adam and Eve BUT that would have only given them a "date" based on when Adam and Eve left Eden and NOT for the creation of the world.

Ofcourse, I only meant that Moses probably did think that the whole of creation was done in 6 days, as did many of other authors. There was no reason to discard this view, and while some church fathers believed in instant creation, the idea was still of a young earth.

[PaulSacramento]

Yep, BUT what MAY be debatable is IF Moses and others viewed creation as a literal 6 x 24 hour periods since the Hebrew word for days can mean so much more than just a 24 hour period.

[secretfire6]

There used to be something called "the defender's Bible" that was an accumulation of church style scientific points that "proved" the young age of the earth. so much of it has since been proven wrong that it has all but been abandoned. It contained such things as:
since the sun is expanding at (such and such) rate, it is impossible for earth and the solar system to be millions of years old because the sun would have already swallowed the earth.
with the rate of erosion from wind and water, the earth would be totally flat if it was millions of years old.
With the rate of techtonic and volcanic build up of mountain ranges and land mass, the earth would have enormous mountains and almost no sea if it was millions of years old.

No joke, this is what is in there. I'm glad most have left it, because the sun is not expanding, it pulsates very slightly getting a tiny bit bigger then a tiny bit smaller all the time. The other 2 points take care of each other. They have other points they make about the moon, oil, comets and crystals all of which are wrong as well. True, though this book was made quite a long time ago,but I don't know if any true scientists were involved in making it. It doesn't look like it to me judging by the simple mistakes made in it. Anyway that book and the misinterpretations of scripture are all I know of that attempts to support YEC.