Noah's Ark was round?
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Noah's Ark was round?
Well this is interesting.. Maybe those guys at the ark encounter will have to change their design...
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kz3fVha_x50[/youtube]
Noah's Ark could have been round, according to building instructions on a recently discovered, 4,000-year-old cuneiform clay tablet at the British Museum.
LONDON — It was a vast boat that saved two of each animal and a handful of humans from a catastrophic flood.
But forget all those images of a long vessel with a pointy bow — the original Noah's Ark, new research suggests, was round.
A recently deciphered 4,000-year-old tablet from ancient Mesopotamia — modern-day Iraq — reveals striking new details about the roots of the Old Testament tale of Noah. It tells a similar story, complete with detailed instructions for building a giant round vessel known as a coracle — as well as the key instruction that animals should enter "two by two."
The tablet went on display at the British Museum on Friday, and soon engineers will follow the ancient instructions to see whether the vessel could actually have sailed.
It's also the subject of a new book, "The Ark Before Noah," by Irving Finkel, the museum's assistant keeper of the Middle East and the man who translated the tablet.
Finkel got hold of it a few years ago, when a man brought in a damaged tablet his father had acquired in the Middle East after World War II. It was light brown, about the size of a mobile phone and covered in the jagged cuneiform script of the ancient Mesopotamians.
It turned out, Finkel said Friday, to be "one of the most important human documents ever discovered."
"It was really a heart-stopping moment — the discovery that the boat was to be a round boat," said Finkel, who sports a long gray beard, a ponytail and boundless enthusiasm for his subject. "That was a real surprise."
And yet, Finkel said, a round boat makes sense. Coracles were widely used as river taxis in ancient Iraq and are perfectly designed to bob along on raging floodwaters.
"It's a perfect thing," Finkel said. "It never sinks, it's light to carry."
Elizabeth Stone, an expert on the antiquities of ancient Mesopotamia at New York's Stony Brook University, said it made sense that ancient Mesopotamians would depict their mythological ark in that shape.
"People are going to envision the boat however people envision boats where they are," she said. "Coracles are not unusual things to have had in Mesopotamia."
The tablet records a Mesopotamian god's instructions for building a giant vessel — two-thirds the size of a soccer field in area — made of rope, reinforced with wooden ribs and coated in bitumen.
Finkel said that on paper (or stone) the boat-building orders appear sound, but he doesn't yet know whether it would have floated. A television documentary due to be broadcast later this year will follow attempts to build the ark according to the ancient manual.
The flood story recurs in later Mesopotamian writings including the "Epic of Gilgamesh." These versions lack the technical instructions — cut out, Finkel believes, because they got in the way of the storytelling.
"It would be like a Bond movie where instead of having this great sexy red car that comes on, somebody starts to tell you about how many horsepower it's got and the pressure of the tires and the capacity of the boot (trunk)," he said. "No one cares about that. They want the car chase."
Finkel is aware his discovery may cause consternation among believers in the Biblical story. When 19th-century British Museum scholars first learned from cuneiform tablets that the Babylonians had a flood myth, they were disturbed by its striking similarities to the story of Noah.
"Already in 1872 people were writing about it in a worried way — What does it mean that Holy Writ appears on this piece of Weetabix?" he joked, referring to a cereal similar in shape to the tablet.
Source: http://news.msn.com/pop-culture/british ... -was-round
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kz3fVha_x50[/youtube]
Noah's Ark could have been round, according to building instructions on a recently discovered, 4,000-year-old cuneiform clay tablet at the British Museum.
LONDON — It was a vast boat that saved two of each animal and a handful of humans from a catastrophic flood.
But forget all those images of a long vessel with a pointy bow — the original Noah's Ark, new research suggests, was round.
A recently deciphered 4,000-year-old tablet from ancient Mesopotamia — modern-day Iraq — reveals striking new details about the roots of the Old Testament tale of Noah. It tells a similar story, complete with detailed instructions for building a giant round vessel known as a coracle — as well as the key instruction that animals should enter "two by two."
The tablet went on display at the British Museum on Friday, and soon engineers will follow the ancient instructions to see whether the vessel could actually have sailed.
It's also the subject of a new book, "The Ark Before Noah," by Irving Finkel, the museum's assistant keeper of the Middle East and the man who translated the tablet.
Finkel got hold of it a few years ago, when a man brought in a damaged tablet his father had acquired in the Middle East after World War II. It was light brown, about the size of a mobile phone and covered in the jagged cuneiform script of the ancient Mesopotamians.
It turned out, Finkel said Friday, to be "one of the most important human documents ever discovered."
"It was really a heart-stopping moment — the discovery that the boat was to be a round boat," said Finkel, who sports a long gray beard, a ponytail and boundless enthusiasm for his subject. "That was a real surprise."
And yet, Finkel said, a round boat makes sense. Coracles were widely used as river taxis in ancient Iraq and are perfectly designed to bob along on raging floodwaters.
"It's a perfect thing," Finkel said. "It never sinks, it's light to carry."
Elizabeth Stone, an expert on the antiquities of ancient Mesopotamia at New York's Stony Brook University, said it made sense that ancient Mesopotamians would depict their mythological ark in that shape.
"People are going to envision the boat however people envision boats where they are," she said. "Coracles are not unusual things to have had in Mesopotamia."
The tablet records a Mesopotamian god's instructions for building a giant vessel — two-thirds the size of a soccer field in area — made of rope, reinforced with wooden ribs and coated in bitumen.
Finkel said that on paper (or stone) the boat-building orders appear sound, but he doesn't yet know whether it would have floated. A television documentary due to be broadcast later this year will follow attempts to build the ark according to the ancient manual.
The flood story recurs in later Mesopotamian writings including the "Epic of Gilgamesh." These versions lack the technical instructions — cut out, Finkel believes, because they got in the way of the storytelling.
"It would be like a Bond movie where instead of having this great sexy red car that comes on, somebody starts to tell you about how many horsepower it's got and the pressure of the tires and the capacity of the boot (trunk)," he said. "No one cares about that. They want the car chase."
Finkel is aware his discovery may cause consternation among believers in the Biblical story. When 19th-century British Museum scholars first learned from cuneiform tablets that the Babylonians had a flood myth, they were disturbed by its striking similarities to the story of Noah.
"Already in 1872 people were writing about it in a worried way — What does it mean that Holy Writ appears on this piece of Weetabix?" he joked, referring to a cereal similar in shape to the tablet.
Source: http://news.msn.com/pop-culture/british ... -was-round
Last edited by Gman on Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo
We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8
We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8
- Furstentum Liechtenstein
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Re: Noah's Ark was round
A round Ark? Another attempt to re-write the Bible? ...maybe you should have posted this in the Humor & Jokes forum!
I remember seeing a half-scale replica of the Ark at a port near Lelystad, in Flevoland, The Netherlands back in 2010. We couldn't visit it at the time because it was closed or unfinished...I don't remember which. It was BIG! even at half-scale.
And it wasn't round.
FL
I remember seeing a half-scale replica of the Ark at a port near Lelystad, in Flevoland, The Netherlands back in 2010. We couldn't visit it at the time because it was closed or unfinished...I don't remember which. It was BIG! even at half-scale.
And it wasn't round.
FL
Hold everything lightly. If you don't, it will hurt when God pries your fingers loose as He takes it from you. -Corrie Ten Boom
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If they had a social gospel in the days of the prodigal son, somebody would have given him a bed and a sandwich and he never would have gone home.
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Re: Noah's Ark was round
Not only are they saying the ark was round, but it also had sails too? Alrighty then!The tablet went on display at the British Museum on Friday, and soon engineers will follow the ancient instructions to see whether the vessel could actually have sailed.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
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Re: Noah's Ark was round
Around, around we go....Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:A round Ark? Another attempt to re-write the Bible? ...maybe you should have posted this in the Humor & Jokes forum!
I remember seeing a half-scale replica of the Ark at a port near Lelystad, in Flevoland, The Netherlands back in 2010. We couldn't visit it at the time because it was closed or unfinished...I don't remember which. It was BIG! even at half-scale.
And it wasn't round.
FL
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo
We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8
We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8
- Kurieuo
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Re: Noah's Ark was round
Come on FL, G&S is OE Day-Age site... so you should be used to the Bible being distorted by people here no? Err... hang on.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)
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Re: Noah's Ark was round
Surely all this supports the biblical story that the fact another flood tale has been found implies that something major did happen.
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Re: Noah's Ark was round
Any criticism of this find?
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Re: Noah's Ark was round
Pictures of sails please.Silvertusk wrote:Any criticism of this find?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
- Furstentum Liechtenstein
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Re: Noah's Ark was round
I only post on this heretical site in the hopes of saving your souls from ETERNAL Damnation! If any of you die without believing in YEC truth, you'll all BURN in HELL forevermore!Kurieuo wrote:Come on FL, G&S is OE Day-Age site... so you should be used to the Bible being distorted by people here no? Err... hang on.
There is still time! Accept the Truth and come into the Light!
FL
Hold everything lightly. If you don't, it will hurt when God pries your fingers loose as He takes it from you. -Corrie Ten Boom
+ + +
If they had a social gospel in the days of the prodigal son, somebody would have given him a bed and a sandwich and he never would have gone home.
+ + +
+ + +
If they had a social gospel in the days of the prodigal son, somebody would have given him a bed and a sandwich and he never would have gone home.
+ + +
- Jac3510
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Re: Noah's Ark was round
Easy.Silvertusk wrote:Any criticism of this find?
- This is how you are to build it: The ark is to be three hundred cubits long, fifty cubits wide and thirty cubits high. (Gen. 3:15)
If we actually believe the biblical text as written, though, then no, we cannot affirm that the ark was round.
edit,
By the way, this author is also "107% convinced the ark never existed." So yeah, I'm not particular interested in what this fool has to say.
To each his own.
And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue
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Re: Noah's Ark was round
What I meant - was is there any evidence that the biblical account predates this account?Jac3510 wrote:Easy.Silvertusk wrote:Any criticism of this find?
The the ark was not round. It was rectangular. The author of this book assumes that the biblical account was based on an earlier Mesopotamian account, so apparently he can discount the biblical dimensions.
- This is how you are to build it: The ark is to be three hundred cubits long, fifty cubits wide and thirty cubits high. (Gen. 3:15)
If we actually believe the biblical text as written, though, then no, we cannot affirm that the ark was round.
edit,
By the way, this author is also "107% convinced the ark never existed." So yeah, I'm not particular interested in what this fool has to say.
To each his own.
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Re: Noah's Ark was round
Well.. You don't have to sugar coat it like that that kid..Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:I only post on this heretical site in the hopes of saving your souls from ETERNAL Damnation! If any of you die without believing in YEC truth, you'll all BURN in HELL forevermore!Kurieuo wrote:Come on FL, G&S is OE Day-Age site... so you should be used to the Bible being distorted by people here no? Err... hang on.
There is still time! Accept the Truth and come into the Light!
FL
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo
We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8
We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8
- Jac3510
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Re: Noah's Ark was round
What evidence is there that this account predates the biblical one?Silvertusk wrote:What I meant - was is there any evidence that the biblical account predates this account?
Beyond that, the epic of Gilgamesh apparently predates this particular account be a century or more, and both the reasoning for the Noah story' dependency on that account as well as this particular story being older than the Genesis account are the same: namely, the Jews in captivity in Babylon learned the story and took it back with them when they returned from exile and incorporated it into the OT. That view presupposes the documentary hypothesis, which has been debunked every which way imaginable. You have to be an ideologically blinded ignoramus (or someone who has attended an American University--I can't say anything for European ones--and has taken one class in religion and not bothered to study the issue in any detail--in that case, you may not be an ignoramus, but instead just naive and easily fooled).
Beyond that, it's rather obvious when you compare the Genesis flood story with other Mesopotamian flood stories that the latter, pagan versions are always highly legendary. Noah's story is far more historical. The legendary development is much easier to explain if we start with Noah than if we end with him. And to a point you made earlier, what all the stories point to is a real flood at some point in history. It's obvious that these pagan stories are not it, and that ties all in rather nicely with the point I just made.
Again, I cannot emphasize enough that the thinking upon which the argument that the Old Testament is dependent upon these stories for its origin--the basis for such a theory--has been debunked time and again. And all this before we get to the rather glaring fact that the Bible is the inspired Word of God, that Jesus regarded Noah as a historical figure, etc.
So I ask again: why on earth would I or anyone accept the proposition that the story predates the OT account?
And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue
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Re: Noah's Ark was round
Thanks for that Jac -have you got any links or references to back up what you just said, please don't think I am being flippant - I genuinely want to read more material on this matter and admittedly I am rather an "ignoramus" in this area
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Re: Noah's Ark was round
It's hard for me to point you to any particular source, as the criticism is so widespread. Just Google "criticism of the documentary hypothesis" and related terms and you'll find more material than you could ever read in a lifetime.
Some material you want to start with, though:
https://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2 ... px#Article
http://carm.org/documentary-hypothesis
http://www.doubtlessfaith.com/uploads/5 ... archs2.pdf
http://www.sbts.edu/media/publications/ ... 1fall4.pdf
And on and on and on and on . . .
If you want a book (though somewhat dated), Gleason Archer's Survey of Old Testament Introduction is good. I'll close with a comment from William Lasor, who is no conservative scholar (which you can see from the quote itself), mind you, from his book Old Testament Survey: The Message, Form, and Background of the Old Testament:
Some material you want to start with, though:
https://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2 ... px#Article
http://carm.org/documentary-hypothesis
http://www.doubtlessfaith.com/uploads/5 ... archs2.pdf
http://www.sbts.edu/media/publications/ ... 1fall4.pdf
And on and on and on and on . . .
If you want a book (though somewhat dated), Gleason Archer's Survey of Old Testament Introduction is good. I'll close with a comment from William Lasor, who is no conservative scholar (which you can see from the quote itself), mind you, from his book Old Testament Survey: The Message, Form, and Background of the Old Testament:
- It is doubtful that the documentary hypothesis will survive the critical labors of contemporary scholarship. What new hypothesis will receive wide acclaim is far from clear. Certainly, the Pentateuch is an anthology of a wide variety of literature, accounts, laws, rituals, exhortations, sermons, and instructions. How were these texts preserved before they were canonized? How did an ancient text address a later audience? These questions are crucial to understanding the complexity of the Pentateuch. They lead one to conclude that it was not written by one person in a given decade. Rather it is the product of the believing community through many centuries. Of much more importance for interpretation is the final result of this long process, produced by the inspired authors, editors, and tradition-bearers of God’s chosen people.
And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue