USURY...The Forgotten Evil

[jcgood]

http://www.ehow.com/info_7758995_highes ... -card.html

Legal Institutionalized Usury....allowing lending interest on loaned money to be exorbitant. Why are drugs, prostitution, and other vices considered illegal and these crimes are done in the dark alleys; but usury is just fine?

The first place is ....what is exorbitant?... There is nothing inappropriate about lending with interest....from the Bible's perspective.

Deut. 23:19......“You shall not charge interest on loans to your brother, interest on money, interest on food, interest on anything that is lent for interest.

I read a little about the history of a sect within English Protestants....called "Puritans"....which had adopted a limit of 5% interest.....if it was even charged.
That seems reasonable to me.

I am the only person I know that talks about this issue.... I just wanted some feedback.

If one were going to lend money to their neighbor......as a Christian...loving the neighbor as their self.....what would that look like?

How does this square with "free market" ideology?

The "people have choices" argument still cannot explain away the untold destruction, misery and bondage....this evil has done to society...
to marriage relationships, families, etc.

[JackHectorman]

http://www.ehow.com/info_7758995_highes ... -card.html

Legal Institutionalized Usury....allowing lending interest on loaned money to be exorbitant. Why are drugs, prostitution, and other vices considered illegal and these crimes are done in the dark alleys; but usury is just fine?

The first place is ....what is exorbitant?... There is nothing inappropriate about lending with interest....from the Bible's perspective.

Deut. 23:19......“You shall not charge interest on loans to your brother, interest on money, interest on food, interest on anything that is lent for interest.

I read a little about the history of a sect within English Protestants....called "Puritans"....which had adopted a limit of 5% interest.....if it was even charged.
That seems reasonable to me.

I am the only person I know that talks about this issue.... I just wanted some feedback.

If one were going to lend money to their neighbor......as a Christian...loving the neighbor as their self.....what would that look like?

How does this square with "free market" ideology?

The "people have choices" argument still cannot explain away the untold destruction, misery and bondage....this evil has done to society...
to marriage relationships, families, etc.

(bolded by Jack)

Re your statement that I bolded: Here in the 21st century money and cars and houses and clothes are different forms of the same thing. People buy money. People buy cars. People buy houses and clothes. They buy the use of money just like they buy the use of automobiles, houses, and clothes. An automobile is instantly changeable into money when it is offered for sale in a large wholesale or retail market.

How much profit [interest] can Bob a Christian banker, make on the sale [sells the use of that money] of money to Tom a Christian brother?

The reason I mentioned the above is because I think your bolded question seems to be the same as this question: If one were going to sell an automobile to their neighbor......as a Christian...loving the neighbor as their self.....what would that sale look like?

How much profit margin can Bob a Christian car dealer, make on a car sale to Tom a Christian brother?

Bob the car dealer buys a used car for $6000.00 and determines he needs to make at least $2000.00 on that car in order to stay in business and pay his employees a good living. Bob knows he will gladly sell the car for $8000.00. But he prices the car at $9000.00 thereby adding a $1000.00 "haggling amount" to the price because he knows that the typical used car buyer is going to try to "jaw him down" in price. A few days later Henry comes onto Bob's car dealership and immediately falls in love with that particular car. In the course of the conversation Tom mentions that he has been a deacon in the First Baptist Church for 20 years. Bob and Henry chat awhile and Bob becomes convinced that Henry is a Christian. After while they get back to the subject of that car. They take it out for a test drive. When they get back to the lot, Henry says to Bob, "Listen I really like that car, but $9000.00 is just a tad to steep, tell you what, I'll pay $8700.00 for the car."

Bob knows that he would be glad to sell that car to anybody for $8000.00, but Henry has just offered him $8700.00 ... $700.00 above Bob's expected selling price.

Bob replies, "Henry, you drive a hard bargain. But the car is yours for $8700.00.

Did Bob commit a sin?

( More information: Bob is a good Christian man. He has 37 people that work at his car dealership. Some are salesmen, some are mechanics, some are accountants, and he has two full time assistant mangers. They all depend on Bob's New And Used Car Dealership for a living. Seventy-six present of Bob's employees are family people with children. They all hope for raises each year to keep up with the times.

Sometimes Bob has to sell a car significantly under the profit percentage margin he needs in order to run his dealership. Sometimes on certain cars in his inventory he actually loses money on them.)

What say ye to that?

_________

Of course as you know, your word exorbitant [characterizing the price of any commodity, whither money or cars] automatically makes the sale immoral.

Cheers.

♫ ♪ ♫ ♪

[jcgood]

I don't agree with your assessment that "buying money" equates to a loan.

A loan requires that I return the asset....plus the interest.

If I buy a car, clothes, house..etc..1) I'm not going to return the car..etc.2) the car...etc. would depreciate...even if it sat still....3) plus insurance....etc.

One takes a loan....when they don't have the money......That Christian has money to spend in your scenario...
I don't see the connection that you are seeing.
Sin is a heart issue and a motive issue...

What is your answer to your own question?...

Jesus Christ said...."Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's....and unto God was is God's".

In this case...."Caesar....representing the government....has not explained its hypocrisy....and unjust laws that sanction usury, predatory lending...

...and this is only the tip of the iceberg of greedy, speculative......investment ventures....that have not had much...if any... negative exposure from Christian figures in the nation's media.....in Congress....

[1over137]

If one were going to lend money to their neighbor......as a Christian...loving the neighbor as their self.....what would that look like?

The Christian would not commit usury. Probably he would only take into account inflation at most.

[jcgood]

1 over 137....Yes I agree.

A Christian believes that God supplies one's daily bread by faith....and loves justice and mercy.

I currently work for a dear Christian lady as a caregiver...and we don't have a set payment arrangement....We both depend upon the Lord in this matter...
....and if I receive anything....it comes from the Lord.......I am not counting hours...or money....I am free.

The Lord has set me and her free from the world's way of saying......my work is worth $10 an hour....but their work is worth $20,000.....
...and a system that encourages people to be in debt for thirty years to purchase shelter that is overly inflated from greedy speculation... is madness...

Psalm 24:1 A Psalm of David. The earth is the LORD'S, and all it contains, The world, and those who dwell in it.

The Lord has made us priceless...and our relationship with Him is priceless.....and we are thriving...and not under any law but the Spirit of the Love of Christ

Matthew 6:33....... only rendering unto God....is what eternally matters.
It is sinful and foolish to covet anther's wealth...
...and some say this is a "Christian Nation".......

[JackHectorman]

I don't agree with your assessment that "buying money" equates to a loan.
A loan requires that I return the asset....plus the interest.

That's an irrelevant distinction to twenty-first century businessmen [the one's long established and those just getting started] because they strongly desire to buy money to use in order to create more money.

And they DO create more money [and more jobs and more infrastructure too], this is how the magnificent capitalistic system works, and its how modern America was built. This is why you [and I] have zero intention of moving to Somalia [or any place like that.]

Note: The capitalistic system, like everything else fallen humanity touches is tainted with sin, but its still a magnificent system. If you invent an economic system that is better than capitalism, you will be a mega-billionaire and have enormous amounts of money to help the poor of the world and other causes about which you feel strongly.

The American capitalistic-political system works pragmatically on a super-excellent scale. You [and I] have NOTHING that works BETTER, and that can replace it.

The American political-capitalistic system gives me the two elements I am primarily interested in:
(1) Freedom
(2) Funding

I want the Christian Church to have the essential Freedom and the Funding so she can fulfill her assigned task of carrying out the Lord Christ's Great Commission, which I view as the one and only solution to America's social, economic, educational, and political problems.

When the Lord Christ told His Christian Church to go and make disciples of all nations teaching them to obey His commands, my view is that He was not joking. He really meant it.

And it takes Freedom and Funding to get it done.

The Christian Church started off in the 21st century with only a few dozen, today we have over 2,000,000,000 Christians worldwide and we're growing like wildfire in places like China, South America, and Africa. That's huge progress. This enormous growth-progress is being economically fueled by the huge Western capitalistic-political system.

Non-capitalistic nations are not contributing even one dime to the worldwide spread of the gospel and Christendom.

If I buy a car, clothes, house..etc..1) I'm not going to return the car..etc.2) the car...etc. would depreciate...even if it sat still....3) plus insurance....etc.

I understand. But huge numbers of twenty-first century people strongly prefer to buy the use of material objects. That's what a car lease is, and paying rent. There are millions of Western people that do not want to own. They prefer to buy the use of cars, apartments, houses, and money.

One takes a loan....when they don't have the money......

That's usually true, though sometimes investors will buy money to use even when they have money because they want to protect their reserves. Its a business decision based on what they think is most important, (1) paying interest or (2) protecting their reserves.

That Christian has money to spend in your scenario...
I don't see the connection that you are seeing.
Sin is a heart issue and a motive issue...
What is your answer to your own question?...
(bolded by Jack)

My view is that Bob did not sin. Bob had a business to run, he had a lot of employees with families that depended on him staying in business. And like you said, "that Christian had money to spend."

Imo, we can imagine some scenario where Bob would have sinned if he had taken the extra $700.00 in profit. I do NOT advocate the principle of "whatever the traffic will bear." I mean there is such as thing as "over charging" people for goods and services. [But I don't want the Government deciding what that is.]

Jesus Christ said...."Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's....and unto God was is God's".

It absolutely requires that which is Caesar's [money] in order to "render .. unto God that which is God's" that is, if you believe in building Christian Churches in Africa, China, South America, and all over the world. I do believe in that. I help fund it.

I am NOT trying to be cute here when I say that a church of 1500 sincere Christians can not meet together for worship services in a cleared cornfield, stay together as a Church, fund foreign missions, and do all the other things a Christian Church is supposed to do. Just my church alone funds foreign & home Christian missions heavily each year. We're a large growing church in a large building, just the building alone cost well over 7 million dollars.

In this case...."Caesar....representing the government....has not explained its hypocrisy....and unjust laws that sanction usury, predatory lending...
...and this is only the tip of the iceberg of greedy, speculative......investment ventures....that have not had much...if any... negative exposure from Christian figures in the nation's media.....in Congress....
(bolded by Jack)

Predatory lending is a sin. Sin springs out of the Sin Principle raging in the unregenerated human heart. The United States Government cannot "fix" that problem. And Christian leaders speaking out against it, can't fix it either. Here is the one and only permanent solution to human greed or any other sin(s) plaguing America:

John 3:3 [must be born again ie. regenerated]
John 3:16 [must accept the Lord Christ as Savior]
Galatians 5:22-23 [must allow the Holy Spirit to produce the fruits of the Spirit in the heart ie. virtues like faith, love, patience, gentleness, hope, etc.]

No nation can skip over the Lord Christ as Savior on their way to fixing their problems, or skip over the God of the Bible, and skip over the supernatural work of the Holy Spirit in the heart of the born again Christian that makes him into a good and wise Christian .. on their way to fixing their nation's many problems, of which predatory lending is just one among dozens of others [abortion, fornication, pornication, adultery, serial divorce & remarriage, hetro sexual perversion, homo sexual perversion etc.]

Cheers.

♫ ♪ ♫ ♪

[Philip]

...and a system that encourages people to be in debt for thirty years to purchase shelter that is overly inflated from greedy speculation... is madness...

And what "system" might that be? "Greedy speculation?" Yes, that exists. But it is mostly a stereotype. Why? Because people have choices, and most will naturally pursue reasonably priced housing and products. They don't HAVE to buy exorbitantly priced houses or anything else. People doing so aren't willing to prudently live within their means. And those building a house can't wait until most people have the cash to pay for it. So how are people able to afford what they need now (housing) without having the money NOW? They must borrow - which is also a service with a cost. And a person's cost is going to be far more with renting as opposed to buying - over the long run. So if one can gradually (over 20-30 years) be allowed to live in a property BEFORE they pay it off - ALSO FOR 20-30 YEARS - then I'd say that is a good deal. Encouraging people to get a mortgage on a reasonably priced house that they can afford is "madness?" Hardly! Owning has MANY benefits.

With capitalism, the market sets the price. No one is forced to buy a ridiculously over-priced housing - as that is THEIR choice. If housing in one area is outrageously priced (often due to excessive regulatory and taxation issues), then one has the right to go to a market/geographic area in which pricing is much more affordable. I can tell you that landlords are also easily and often greedy - owning/buying is the far better alternative. In fact, highly overpricing ANYTHING is not a smart business move. Everyone in business has overhead costs. And everyone in business MUST make a reasonable profit or they won't REMAIN in business very long. People that offer products, houses - or ANYTHING - at reasonable pricing will always be far more successful.

And words like "system" are merely the parameters within how business can be legally done. Businesses are run by PEOPLE - in every system, some that are fair and some that are greedy. And the alternative to capitalism, government/system-wise, is that the state sets pricing and controls all. And we can see how inept and corrupt that can quickly become - with a only a king, head of state or a few elites telling everyone else how they must transact business. Capitalism also offers freedom to being as personally generous with one's pricing as they see fit. Other forms of government dictate EVERY aspect of a transaction - cost, everything - a terrible system. A system in which the state asserts to know what it thinks (and DEMANDS) is best for everyone. In such systems, you can't be generous, as you must sell for what the state says is whatever they want it to be. In fact, in such systems, that everyone has the same costs is key to propping up the economics of that system. And without a reasonable profit motive, the quality of everything dramatically erodes.

[JackHectorman]

...and a system that encourages people to be in debt for thirty years to purchase shelter that is overly inflated from greedy speculation... is madness...

And what "system" might that be? "Greedy speculation?" Yes, that exists. But it is mostly a stereotype. Why? Because people have choices, and most will naturally pursue reasonably priced housing and products. They don't HAVE to buy exorbitantly priced houses or anything else. People doing so aren't willing to prudently live within their means. And those building a house can't wait until most people have the cash to pay for it. So how are people able to afford what they need now (housing) without having the money NOW? They must borrow - which is also a service with a cost. And a person's cost is going to be far more with renting as opposed to buying - over the long run. So if one can gradually (over 20-30 years) be allowed to live in a property BEFORE they pay it off - ALSO FOR 20-30 YEARS - then I'd say that is a good deal. Encouraging people to get a mortgage on a reasonably priced house that they can afford is "madness?" Hardly! Owning has MANY benefits.

With capitalism, the market sets the price. No one is forced to buy a ridiculously over-priced housing - as that is THEIR choice. If housing in one area is outrageously priced (often due to excessive regulatory and taxation issues), then one has the right to go to a market/geographic area in which pricing is much more affordable. I can tell you that landlords are also easily and often greedy - owning/buying is the far better alternative. In fact, highly overpricing ANYTHING is not a smart business move. Everyone in business has overhead costs. And everyone in business MUST make a reasonable profit or they won't REMAIN in business very long. People that offer products, houses - or ANYTHING - at reasonable pricing will always be far more successful.

And words like "system" are merely the parameters within how business can be legally done. Businesses are run by PEOPLE - in every system, some that are fair and some that are greedy. And the alternative to capitalism, government/system-wise, is that the state sets pricing and controls all. And we can see how inept and corrupt that can quickly become - with a only a king, head of state or a few elites telling everyone else how they must transact business. Capitalism also offers freedom to being as personally generous with one's pricing as they see fit. Other forms of government dictate EVERY aspect of a transaction - cost, everything - a terrible system. A system in which the state asserts to know what it thinks (and DEMANDS) is best for everyone. In such systems, you can't be generous, as you must sell for what the state says is whatever they want it to be. In fact, in such systems, that everyone has the same costs is key to propping up the economics of that system. And without a reasonable profit motive, the quality of everything dramatically erodes.

Amen to all that up there .. sounds good to me .. I wouldn't want to live otherwise.

As someone said, these ARE the "good old days." .... I sure don't want to "go back" to so-called "better times" before capitalism really got cranked up and going in America and produced America's modern 21st century's infrastructure as we see it today ... I'll take 2014-America over 1865-America any day .. lol .. 1950-America too ...

. I love America .. and her shopping malls .. and her banks .. and her capitalism ... her 14 trillion dollar economy ... and her Sam's Clubs and her WalMarts .. and all that
is made possible by America's capitalistic-political system and earned profits [interest] on loaned money.

This is beautiful to me. Capitalism at work.

♫

PS
I know we have a lot of problems in America, we're a highly imperfect nation [what nation on Earth isn't?] and its the job of the Christian Church to gradually and incrementally over the coming decades, centuries, and millenniums to make America a better nation state.

`

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

... its the job of the Christian Church to gradually and incrementally over the coming decades, centuries, and millenniums to make America a better nation state. `

Your patriotism is admirable but there is nothing in the Bible about making any country a better place. The Church's job is to carry the gospel to the world.

FL

[Philip]

Your patriotism is admirable but there is nothing in the Bible about making any country a better place. The Church's job is to carry the gospel to the world.

Yeah, let's try to save people but let's not get too concerned about their economic well being or circumstances - as when these are poor leads to a long list of dire consequences, health problems, divorce, even abortion. Why WOULDN'T Christians strive to make their country a better place (in every way possible) for others as well as themselves? While true that all good things flow from God, as it is a person's position before God that matters most to Him. But God has always been concerned with the circumstances of everyone, it's just that it's not His TOP priority. He wants relationship, first. And, of course, He's not concerned with making people wealthy or exceptionally comfortable, but He is concerned with their situations, circumstances and providing for their true needs. And He doesn't want to just hand people things, but to provide them with the freedom and ability to change things through prayer and hard work. In fact, Christians ability to evangelize is often immensely related to first serving their temporal needs. So true: "People don't care what you have to say about Christ until they know that you actually CARE about them to begin with." And we demonstrate that by serving them and helping with their needs and circumstances.

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

Yeah, let's try to save people but let's not get too concerned about their economic well being or circumstances - as when these are poor leads to a long list of dire consequences, health problems, divorce, even abortion. Why WOULDN'T Christians strive to make their country a better place (in every way possible) for others as well as themselves? While true that all good things flow from God, as it is a person's position before God that matters most to Him. But God has always been concerned with the circumstances of everyone, it's just that it's not His TOP priority. He wants relationship, first. And, of course, He's not concerned with making people wealthy or exceptionally comfortable, but He is concerned with their situations, circumstances and providing for their true needs. And He doesn't want to just hand people things, but to provide them with the freedom and ability to change things through prayer and hard work. In fact, Christians ability to evangelize is often immensely related to first serving their temporal needs. So true: "People don't care what you have to say about Christ until they know that you actually CARE about them to begin with." And we demonstrate that by serving them and helping with their needs and circumstances.

Admirable...but this is the social gospel, something most people would agree with whatever their worldview. What does any of this have to do with my post? Do you truly believe that the Church's job is to make some country a better place? Where is the biblical mandate for this? As for this,

In fact, Christians ability to evangelize is often immensely related to first serving their temporal needs.

...we are too myopic to understand what our needs are from God's perspective. God provided for Paul's needs by having him arrested, put in jail and then executed. Like it or not, people often turn to God in times of hardship, not the other way around.

FL

[PeteSinCA]

The Surprising Discovery About Those Colonialist, Proselytizing Missionaries
Andrea Palpant Dilley
ChristianityToday.com
[ posted 1/8/2014 12:07PM ]

Fourteen years ago, (Robert) Woodberry was a graduate student in sociology at the University of North Carolina–Chapel Hill (UNC). The son of J. Dudley Woodberry, a professor of Islamic studies and now a dean emeritus at Fuller Theological Seminary, started studying in UNC's respected PhD program with one of its most influential figures, Christian Smith (now at the University of Notre Dame). But as Woodberry cast about for a fruitful line of research of his own, he grew discontented.

"Most of the research I studied was about American religion," he says of early graduate school. "It wasn't [my] passion, and it didn't feel like a calling, something I could pour my life into."

One afternoon he attended a required lecture that brought his vocational drift to a sudden end. The lecture was by Kenneth A. Bollen, a UNC–Chapel Hill professor and one of the leading experts on measuring and tracking the spread of global democracy. Bollen remarked that he kept finding a significant statistical link between democracy and Protestantism. Someone needed to study the reason for the link, he said.
...
Woodberry set out to track down the evidence for Bollen's conjecture that Protestant religion and democracy were somehow related. He studied yellowed maps, spending months charting the longitude and latitude of former missionary stations. He traveled to Thailand and India to consult with local scholars, dug through archives in London, Edinburgh, and Serampore, India, and talked with church historians all over Europe, North America, Asia, and Africa.

The Christian faith put into action, made and lived real, does a whole lot more than fill "pews".

[JackHectorman]

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:
Your patriotism is admirable

Thank you

but there is nothing in the Bible about making any country a better place.

I would hold just the opposite view. Yet I hesitate to explain why because it is the wrong thread for it, and also I have to use a theological label in order to explain my position, and often theological labels seriously miscommunicate because the reader may have a completely different understanding of the label than does the writer. [Also I try to avoid eschatological arguments in threads, and I am not looking for one here .]

Anyway here goes a brief explanation so you will understand why I hold that making a nation a better place is an automatic by-product of the super-most-important-thing which is preaching the gospel to the world. The explanation is that I hold what could be called old line traditionalism Postmillennialism in the tradition of such theologians as these:

Distinguished Postmillennialists:

Jonathan Edwards
Loraine Boettner
Charles Hodge
A.A. Hodge
James Henley Thornwell
Benjamin B. Warfield
David Brown
Roderick Campbell
Erroll Hulse
Martin G. Selbrede
W.G.T. Shedd
Augustus H. Strong
Marcellus J. Kik
James H. Snowden
R.C. Sproul
Kenneth R. Gentry

What is Postmillennialism ?
"Postmillennialism is the view that Christ will return to the earth after the Spirit-blessed Gospel has had overwhelming success in bringing the world to the adoption of Christianity." __ Kenneth L. Gentry, Jr.

Furstentum Liechtenstein, as the above Christianization gradually and incrementally and almost imperceptibly [because its so slow] occurs the by-product of the world becoming Christianized will automatically produce much better nations. And I cannot possibly over emphasize that "better nations" is a by-product of the gospel. For example, if (say) 96% of America's population had experienced John 3:3 [born again] and John 3:16 [accept the Lord Jesus as Savior] and Gal. 5:22-23 [allowing the Holy Spirit to produce the fruits of the Spirit in the hearts and mind] then America would not have over 2,000,000 of her citizens in prison or on probation, as she now does. America would therefore be a better nation because its better for a nation NOT to have 2,000,000 of it's citizens locked up behind bars.

Again, I cannot emphasize strongly enough that the automatic economic and material improvement in the nations of the Earth is a mere by-product of the Lord Christ's Great Commission being gradually carried out.

Btw, Furstentum Liechtenstein has got to be the coolest screen name on the web. I'll bet you're a fun dude

The Church's job is to carry the gospel to the world.

Agreed. Fully agreed. See that definition of Postmillennialism up there again to emphasize how strongly I agree with you on that.


PS
Sorry about the thread drift.

Cheers.

♫ ♪ ♫ ♪

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

... I try to avoid eschatological arguments in threads, and I am not looking for one here .

Nor am I. For pidgeonholing purposes, I'm a Premillenial Dispensationalist. I don't see your post as eschatological; I see it as patriotic, nothing more.

Furstentum Liechtenstein, as the above Christianization gradually and incrementally and almost imperceptibly [because its so slow] occurs the by-product of the world becoming Christianized will automatically produce much better nations

Well, Christianization of the world just won't happen, sorry. It just doesn't line up with biblical prophecy. And, it doesn't line up with what is clearly happenning in the developed world: people are abandoning (nominal) Christianity and replacing it with bizarre spiritualities of Eastern origin. Your country is temporarily isolated from the trend, perhaps because of your history and the great number of real Christians who are still praying for your nation. But you won't escape a gradual and ever increasing descent into the vilest forms of paganism and debauchery. Again, sorry.

I do agree that Christianization produces more agreeable and richer nations with a happier and freer populace. Unfortunately, things are going downhill and gathering momentum, especially in the USA. Do you not see that? When you guys finally get perverted, then we've all had it.

Now that I know you're a postmillenialist, I understand where your social gospel is from. An important part of your belief paradigm is ever-improving conditions until the Gospel reaches all people of the world, and the whole world is Christianized.

Btw, Furstentum Liechtenstein has got to be the coolest screen name on the web. I'll bet you're a fun dude

Thanks! It is possible for a wise and good man also be a fun guy; but it is impossible for a sourpuss to be also wise and good.

FL

[jcgood]

Jack Hectorman wrote

Amen to all that up there .. sounds good to me .. I wouldn't want to live otherwise.

As someone said, these ARE the "good old days." .... I sure don't want to "go back" to so-called "better times" before capitalism really got cranked up and going in America and produced America's modern 21st century's infrastructure as we see it today ... I'll take 2014-America over 1865-America any day .. lol .. 1950-America too ...

. I love America .. and her shopping malls .. and her banks .. and her capitalism ... her 14 trillion dollar economy ... and her Sam's Clubs and her WalMarts .. and all that
is made possible by America's capitalistic-political system and earned profits [interest] on loaned money.

My reply:
What's there to love about material wealth and a perverted market that values death, lies, and slavery over Life, Truth, and Freedom ?............while the divorces, murders, and suicides, and violence, and weekly mass murders and terrorism,corruption, drug use and crime in our society becomes common?

I don't enjoy a culture of greed, materialism, violence and death.....no matter how "rich".....what is a soul worth?...what is a marriage worth?...what is a life worth?...

Government's laws cannot "fix" the hearts of men...but that does not mean that government should promote usury in society...by making it legal and common practice.

I love the people here...Because Christ's love has been shed in my heart by His Grace...I love the people everywhere.

Scripture warns: 1 John 2:15-17 (King James Version).....

15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

Notice the Lord's prayer...John 17:3..... And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.

There are no "good old days"......Eternal Life is knowing the Lord and Our Father in Heaven....This is the true wealth...