Who said that Satan is a fallen angel who tempts, kills...?

[jerzy]

PeteSinCA

You said: “Your refusal to back your claims and dodging questions arising from your posts demonstrates to me quite clearly that you are not here for serious discussion”

1. How I can back up quotes from God’s word?
2. How I can back up what you can easily find out that those studying theology do not study the Bible but what people said about it supported by proof texting?
3. I discussed the issue of the second commandment with a priest with almost 30 years of pulpit employment. He said that Moses changed it in the book of Deutoromy. His name is Stanislaw Lipski. Do you need to speak to him?
4. I discussed Catholic syllabus in Krakow. Do you need contact to their authority?
5. I spoke to a Canadian missionary (doc of theology) in Johannesburg about 10 years ago. He said: people think that studying theology we study the Bible.
6. I have spoken to many more people of different denominations including profs some years ago when I was studying God’s word. Do you expect me to be able to remember names and addresses?
7. Why you are looking t fault in me instead considering what I keep pointing to?
8. Is it not a common knowledge how many (millions upon millions) the Trinitarians have butchered over the 2 centuries.
9. Is it too difficult to find out what they have been doing behind the doors long before or during the WW 2 and up to today?
10. Would I quote from God’s word asking to do likewise ( as commanded) if I had sinister motives?
11. Is my imperfection of English command proving that I am here to turn people away from the only true God so they should forfeit the promised eternal life? BTW, English is neither my mother tongue no I learned it at school. So please point to my mistakes, thanks.

[Silvertusk]

Jerzy.

I think you need to answer the following questions before this discussion continues.

1) Who is Satan? (The question Paul asked you)
2) What is he?
3) Who is Jesus?
4) Do you think Jesus is God?

You talk about Trinitarians as if if they are a cult and not the true Christians - Do you believe in the Trinity?

Are you a JW?

Please answer the above, otherwise this discussion will almost definatley be locked.

[jerzy]

PaulSacramento

1. I answered just above but you don’t want to acknowledge that heaven has few meanings. As the beauty of Israel fell from heaven so did their elevation amongst all nations.
2. There is no mention that Satan is a fallen angel.
3. We are told that Peter was Satan.
4. We are told that the Jewish leaders were thieves.
5. We are told that Paul was persecuted by them.
6. They sent their Messiah to the cross.
7. We are told that God not a fallen angel kills and destroys.
8. We are told that we are tempted by our own lust.
9. Why 8 times out of 27 the word appears in the OT it is translated and only when text points to people or an angel? Why it is transliterated when in a neutral text?
10. Why Jesus always spoke to the Jewish leaders in parables?
11. Why they were blinded to not know the mystery of the Kingdom?
12. Why God hid those things from them?
13. Whom God send strong delusion to so they believed lie?
14. Who is the great red dragon of Re 12:3 who was cast out in Re 12:9?
15. Where was he cast from?
16. Can you find anything in the Bible besides the man - made stories like those about Isa 14::12 or Eze 28 to justify your theology?
17. Are you comfortable stripping God of His Kingdom, power and glory attributing it to this stupid idol supposed fallen angel?
18. How much longer you are going to fight against God’s word?
19. Do you think that rejecting God’s acts of killing and destroying people and nations so often and so clearly recorded in the OT is going to be beneficial in fighting for the idolatrous theology?
20. Do you know how God treated idolaters?
21. Do you know that what God did in the OT is the pattern for us what and why He is doing now?
22. Do you know that God sets up wicket against evil People?
23. Do you think that such mass butchering of Trinitarians by Trinitarians in, say, WW 2 had nothing to do with our behaviour before God?
24. Do you understand that there is a very good reason for putting people through such terrible sufferings?
25. Do you know about the two ways?
26. Do you think that the Trinitarians proved Jesus wrong there?
27. Do you know that you are responsible for propagating idolatry and blasphemy?

I hope you will consider what I said and you will not resort to banning me for pointing to God’s word.

[RickD]

Jerzy,

Answer the rest of Paul's questions, or you will be banned for not doing what a moderator asked.

3) Who is Jesus?
4) Do you think Jesus is God?

You talk about Trinitarians as if if they are a cult and not the true Christians - Do you believe in the Trinity?

Are you a JW?

[PaulSacramento]

PaulSacramento

1. I answered just above but you don’t want to acknowledge that heaven has few meanings. As the beauty of Israel fell from heaven so did their elevation amongst all nations.
2. There is no mention that Satan is a fallen angel.
3. We are told that Peter was Satan.
4. We are told that the Jewish leaders were thieves.
5. We are told that Paul was persecuted by them.
6. They sent their Messiah to the cross.
7. We are told that God not a fallen angel kills and destroys.
8. We are told that we are tempted by our own lust.
9. Why 8 times out of 27 the word appears in the OT it is translated and only when text points to people or an angel? Why it is transliterated when in a neutral text?
10. Why Jesus always spoke to the Jewish leaders in parables?
11. Why they were blinded to not know the mystery of the Kingdom?
12. Why God hid those things from them?
13. Whom God send strong delusion to so they believed lie?
14. Who is the great red dragon of Re 12:3 who was cast out in Re 12:9?
15. Where was he cast from?
16. Can you find anything in the Bible besides the man - made stories like those about Isa 14::12 or Eze 28 to justify your theology?
17. Are you comfortable stripping God of His Kingdom, power and glory attributing it to this stupid idol supposed fallen angel?
18. How much longer you are going to fight against God’s word?
19. Do you think that rejecting God’s acts of killing and destroying people and nations so often and so clearly recorded in the OT is going to be beneficial in fighting for the idolatrous theology?
20. Do you know how God treated idolaters?
21. Do you know that what God did in the OT is the pattern for us what and why He is doing now?
22. Do you know that God sets up wicket against evil People?
23. Do you think that such mass butchering of Trinitarians by Trinitarians in, say, WW 2 had nothing to do with our behaviour before God?
24. Do you understand that there is a very good reason for putting people through such terrible sufferings?
25. Do you know about the two ways?
26. Do you think that the Trinitarians proved Jesus wrong there?
27. Do you know that you are responsible for propagating idolatry and blasphemy?

I hope you will consider what I said and you will not resort to banning me for pointing to God’s word.

You are NOT pointing out God's word.
You are pointing out YOUR view of God's word.
SO I ask you one last time:
What denomination do you follow?

[PaulSacramento]

Jerzy,

Answer the rest of Paul's questions, or you will be banned for not doing what a moderator asked.

3) Who is Jesus?
4) Do you think Jesus is God?

You talk about Trinitarians as if if they are a cult and not the true Christians - Do you believe in the Trinity?

Are you a JW?

I don't think he is a JW since JW believe that Satan is a person and the ruler of THIS system of things.
They view him as a fallen angel as well.

[PaulSacramento]

Honestly, as I go over that 27 point list I just shake my head.

I don't even know where he is getting some of those points !! LOL !
It's like he created a fictitious debate in his mind and is not pointing out how that very points in his fictitious debate are wrong !

[jerzy]

Silvertusk

You said: “I think you need to answer the following questions before this discussion continues.

1) Who is Satan? (The question Paul asked you)
2) What is he?
3) Who is Jesus?
4) Do you think Jesus is God?"

I answered those questions but thanks for giving me the opportunity to speak from God’s word.

1. Satan is a person, people, man’s way of thinking. It is anything who/which is in opposition to mainly right think before God in the first place. Thus Peter was Satan although he wanted to prevent Jesus’ death. However his way of thinking was not in line with God’s plan but merely a result of human reasoning.
2. Answered in point 1 above.
3. Jesus is the only person begotten from dead man’s seed 2Sam 7:12 = Ac 2:30 + Ac13:23.
4. Jesus is the only person so far begotten from the dead to eternal life 1Cor 15:23.
5. It doesn’t matter what I or anybody thinks. What matters is what God says. Nowhere in the Bible God says that Jesus is also God. To the contrary, the entire Bible is clear that the Father is the only true/one/our God. The eternal life is subject to such knowledge.

You said: “You talk about Trinitarians as if if they are a cult and not the true Christians”

A Christian is a follower of Christ. He accepts every of his words like Jn 12:47-50, Jn 17:3, Jn 20:17 and try to live the life Jesus displayed. A Christian has to know God and His servant, repent for all sins and be submerged into the power and authority (symbolicly die to the old man controlled by flesh to be born to the new man controlled by the will of God) granted to Jesus. Only then a Christian stand to qualify for the eternal life but he has to think the same way as Christ did.

You asked: “ - Do you believe in the Trinity?”

The Trinity God is a man-made pagan fashioned story. It was created in a non Christian manner, not Bile based and implemented by the most barbaric means.

You asked: “Are you a JW?”

No, I never had anything to do with JW although have a fair knowledge of their teachings. You should have noticed that I don’t subscribe to their teaching on Satan, origin of Jesus and many more.

Please ask if this doesn’t satisfy you.

[PaulSacramento]

what we basically have in regards to Satan is this:
In Job 1:6 we learn that Satan was in heaven with other angels.

One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them.
That Satan is (was) in heaven is also seen in Zechariah 3:1-2, Luke 10:18 and Revelation 12:9. Revelation 12:9 gives a further clue to Satan's identity:

The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.
This thought is also stated by Jesus in Matthew 25:41:

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
That he has his own angels, is a further clue to him being a (former) angel. (And incidentally, Isaiah 14:12-15 is often used to show why Satan fell, because he wanted to ascend to God's throne).

Note also 2 Corinthians 11:14, which says that Satan can "masquerade as an angel of light."

Conclusion: we know that Satan lives / has lived in heaven, with other angels (some of which are his own), that he was (or will be) cast out of heaven. From this we infer that he is a "fallen angel".

[jerzy]

RickD

You asked: "Answer the rest of Paul's questions, or you will be banned for not doing what a moderator asked."

I have just answered above.

[PaulSacramento]

3. Jesus is the only person begotten from dead man’s seed 2Sam 7:12 = Ac 2:30 + Ac13:23.

Well then.
I guess when John wrote this he was quite simply wrong:
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (John 3:16).

"No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him" (John 1:18).

"He that believeth on Him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God" (John 3:18).

"God sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him" (I John 4:9).

5 Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was. (John 17:5)

And of course, Isaiah says this of Christ:
For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
And the government will rest on His shoulders;
And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

And this:
"Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.


And as for Christ and God having the same nature, well:
Hebrews
1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. 3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power.

[jerzy]

PaulSacramento

You said: “You are NOT pointing out God's word.”

Which of my quotes didn’t come from God’s word?

You said: “You are pointing out YOUR view of God's word.”

Since when my quotes from God’s word is my view of God’s word?

You said: “SO I ask you one last time:
What denomination do you follow?”

Sorry but I must have missed this one or you didn’t ask. At least in those posts I looked at so far.

Anyway, I said that I am a follower of Christ. Do you remember how Jesus named his Church? Perhaps you remember how Paul named those Churches he established in Asia Minor and beyond?

Let me help you. No name. You know why? Because his followers are his subjects alone. They don't need to be devided and controled by man according to his will. They don’t need to be controlled by any of over 33 000 rulers of denominations.

The denominations you are referring to are man-made organisations preaching differing often contradicting theologies selling snake’s oil on demanded.

Most of those denominations are responsible for inhumane massacres of their own and beyond.

Do you want to convince me that they are true Christians? That they follow Christ’s word and example? What about the apostles? Did they kill their own or preach such acts?

Do you see why Christianity is perceived as the biggest religious scam implemented by the most barbaric means?

[jerzy]

PaulSacramento

You said: “I don't even know where he is getting some of those points !!”

It all comes from the Bible while few are just conclusions. I supposed you didn’t need me to provide quotes but if you have a problem please point the numbers and I will supply the texts.

One think, please allow me some time because I am behind with responses to other two topics, have my responsibility (I am not paid to do this) and will go to bed soon. I am in Johannesburg South Africa right now.

[PaulSacramento]

So you do NOT follow any denomination (which is fine) and you only accept the word of Christ, yes?
So I ask you this:
Does Christ speak to you personally and if so, how?

[PeteSinCA]

PeteSinCA

You said: “Your refusal to back your claims and dodging questions arising from your posts demonstrates to me quite clearly that you are not here for serious discussion”

1. How I can back up quotes from God’s word?
2. How I can back up what you can easily find out that those studying theology do not study the Bible but what people said about it supported by proof texting?
3. I discussed the issue of the second commandment with a priest with almost 30 years of pulpit employment. He said that Moses changed it in the book of Deutoromy. His name is Stanislaw Lipski. Do you need to speak to him?
4. I discussed Catholic syllabus in Krakow. Do you need contact to their authority?
5. I spoke to a Canadian missionary (doc of theology) in Johannesburg about 10 years ago. He said: people think that studying theology we study the Bible.
6. I have spoken to many more people of different denominations including profs some years ago when I was studying God’s word. Do you expect me to be able to remember names and addresses?
7. Why you are looking t fault in me instead considering what I keep pointing to?
8. Is it not a common knowledge how many (millions upon millions) the Trinitarians have butchered over the 2 centuries.
9. Is it too difficult to find out what they have been doing behind the doors long before or during the WW 2 and up to today?
10. Would I quote from God’s word asking to do likewise ( as commanded) if I had sinister motives?
11. Is my imperfection of English command proving that I am here to turn people away from the only true God so they should forfeit the promised eternal life? BTW, English is neither my mother tongue no I learned it at school. So please point to my mistakes, thanks.

Dodging again, I see. The claims to which my post referred are your claims that Bible translations have been manipulated and pastors knowingly teach deceptions. Provide the proof, please, rather than evading clear questions.