USURY...The Forgotten Evil

[jcgood]

B.W...writes:

Actually, we in the USA live under a republic - not a democracy... Big difference.

Bascially, after reading and putting up with jcgood's attacks on anyone who disgrees with him. Be forewarned, my comments to follow will be sharp and cynical...

Here goes...

My Reply...Actually the USA is a Failed, Fragmented Plutocracy..reality is the biggest difference!.........again...B.W. doesn't care about the actual point the writer is making....which is: voting = democracy = dumb for government .....that would cause him to actually ask me a question.

The next sentence is B.W.'s false assessment of "attacks"....which actually amounts to.... me calling out the error of someone's personal attacks against me...or their logic in writing...

the examples of his....astonishing, and actual vicious personal actual attacks on my character...have no merit...... are unjust...vain and pathetically false....follow in horror....

It wasn't communism he was following nor the policies of progressive liberal socialism either.

...none of which is even addressed in my post...
....again...you cannot understand the point I actually made...because you refuse to ask questions.....I'm the writer....not you..

What ..I the writer...and anyone reasonable....would see is that God can use any form of government..eg ...Joseph's Dictatorship...even 21st century Sodom..basic Romans 13...this is verbatim what I wrote....folks you don't need the false spin.....read the post yourself!...

jcgood desires this same abuse of power and loves it as it is his god and savior. He desires that the USA be pushed into a man made famine and social unrest so that central planners control all and all the USA populace is sold into slavery to his god - government. He demonstrates no concept of corrupt human sin nature and how absolute government power corrupts absolutely. Government is his god and savior.

...this is just a pathetically delusional assessment and blasphemy....which of course.... B.W. has not even the courtesy to back up with even one example....

...B.W......if you can't connect the dots between God and government...Isaiah 9:6.......why make false assessments against a brother?.....what's the point?

I am in the Kingdom of God now...B.W.....I am sorry that you can't see it....

Then he says...

Well, that is not the America a the majority of us want. It is what jcgood craves that America be turned into.

..And?....The majority of America elects murderers.....children want ice cream for dinner every night.....this is a weightless argument...and very lame...
..last time I checked....eternal life was about what God wants...not America....which seems to be what B.W. worships
...evident..in that he will trash a brother verbally....in the defense of a nation that is clearly whoring after Mammon.

B.W.....very consistent....and so very wrong to think he knows anything about my wants....
B.W....I want you to get saved...from the crooked way you think about others and judge people....those you cannot understand........


Actually...I have clearly called out America as 21st century Sodom...which self-destucts...from its own greed, hypocrisy, arrogance, violence....which God deals with...in His time

This is not my country.....I'm not from here..B.W......I'm just watching this evil giant slowly fall...just like Goliath....

I think he should rather move to Cuba or North Korea and live in his ideal god - government... there...

.....B.W......this is shameful speech coming from you....it's not coming from my Lord...and it's vain
BTW....I live in the greatest places abroad already...with the ultimate government...already...
...B.W...why should I move?

So my apologies in advance to jcgood for writing this but he has asked for it due to all the brain dead leftist occupy propaganda he has posted here and his absolute narrow minded intolerant bigotry he has displayed on this forum which graciously and tolerantly let him post. Good day

...B.W....was obviously speaking about his liberalphobic self here...and I concur........

If the Lord was here.....would he be hanging out with the wall street crowd who think that they "have it all together"....or the broken-hearted in the streets with the occupy movement that are appalled at the unbridled greed and attack on labor that is exalted in today's Sodom...that you blaspheme?

...In case you haven't noticed.....game over...Capital has won...Labor has lost.....and now Capital owns not only Wall Street ...but America's very soul.
..labor is the underdog...

B.W. Why should my views here be objected to so strongly and arbitrarily...don't you think people can make up their own minds.....about the merits of democracy , libertarian capitalism and the myth of America ever being a God fearing nation....what's your point in this?

I actually am more "American"....I am comfortable with you having the freedom to write your stuff that I can't ignore...but you seem to be bent out of shape
over my understanding of government as God has shown me....by the tone of your posts...which clearly show your absolute lack of understanding of my actual motives and points.

My actual recommendations...that will never happen...are hardly a "liberal, occupy"....platform...

The first step in making America a better place.....is for people to .
1) Repent....(greek)...Re-think the esteeming of America better than it really is.....Romans 12:3
2) stop worshipping it more than the Kingdom of God.....Matthew 6:33
3) take a big axe and destroy the lies about America EVER being a God fearing Nation...when Scripture clearly records Israel's devout periods under God fearing Kings...Chronicles....
4)take a big pair of scissors....and seriously get rid of all idols.....staring with our unnecessary and practically non-workable Congress ...democracy, usury, and re-regulate capitalism to 1964 standards...and re-negotiate the true meaning of fair and reasonable labor compensation....
5) Establishing a Non-Partisan....Board of Directors...in lieu of Congress to actually get things done....

IF and only IF I believed that the USA was a God fearing country filled with Genuine Born Again Christians; who would love their neighbors and do righteousness...You betcha I would be a total right-winger....JC Goodman

..the last time I checked....repentance..and transformation....was not a "political label"...but a natural response to righteousness, peace and joy ...in the Holy Spirit
... ?
....notice #4 that I am for capitalism....1964 style...when Capital and Labor were harmoniously married and $1.25 an hour was a generous, living wage....and people were happy with less...and families weren't falling apart at the seams
.....so your fake labels about me are nothing more than a scam...I am not even close to where you have falsely placed me...politically.

...I am clearly in the Center...after God's heart....prophetically persuading today's Sodom...to destroy its idols..or face the consequences...
...a lone voice crying in the wilderness...but is anybody listening?

...except....Actually God allows me access.....and makes my appointments......in earth and in Heaven......thank you.....


What I have asked for is a respectful discussion...but again...you provide no examples.....brilliant continuity!

You must think that everyone thinks like you...so you don't need to give any examples to back up your spurious assessments..

propaganda?....how inapt....am I an elected official?.....this is pure desperation....and utter failure.

Shall we try again.....? Peace.....

[JackHectorman]

I'm just looking for sincere discussion...leading to some understanding of the writer

I have a few sincere points to make. I hope they make a useful contribution to the discussion.

Thanks Jack for offering your sincerely ... I appreciate it.

/grin .. I am the soul of sincerity, but always mixed with some humor ... I love to laugh and have a good time.
From reading the Bible I am under the clear impression that the Sovereign God wants His children to be happy,
and I am happy. I love the Lord, I love life, I love His Church, I love God's people, I love contributing my small
part to carrying out His Great Commission [the one and only solution to human problems, btw] ... and I love
beautiful music that touches the soul ... I love any type of art that uplifts the noble and the good [for example
Tolkien's The Lord Of The Rings, I love beautiful Cathedrals [even though I am a strong Protestant] ... I even love
good food ... I love Sam's Clubs too ... and Walmarts ... and America's huge shopping malls too.

I too....love the American people...

But you don't love our country.


________________________



Very Important Points In This Next Section:

But...I strongly dislike... the 21st century Sodom culture of America...

I think you should make a clear bold distinction between these two groups of people in America:

(1) The true born again people of God who live in America, including the huge number of people
that are not born again Christians right now, BUT will become true born again Christians before
they die.

(2) The people that will end up belonging to Satan, for example the type people that the Lord
said, "You are of your father the devil." I mean the ungodly, the evil people ... what the Bible
calls the "sons of Satan", etc.

You do not make a clear distinction between these two groups, instead you lump them both
together and then refer to "the 21st century Sodom culture of America" and say you "strongly
dislike it."

You are not remembering and incorporating into your posts the fact that there is a HUGE CHRISTIAN
CHURCH in America that is making a sincere effort to live to please the Lord and to raise their
children in the "fear and admonition" of the Lord. Instead you are lumping Christ's "sheep"
in with Satan's "goats" and thinking of them as ONE group. This is incorrect. I would invite
you to stop doing that. ../grin

Also Christ's "sheep" in America number in the dozens and dozens of millions. Nobody knows
how many there are, but when you add up all the numbers of Baptists and Pentecostals, and
Evangelicals, and Catholics, Methodists, Presbyterians, and many other groups, and the huge
numbers of shut-in elderly who never go to church ... you end up with dozens and dozens of
millions of Christians here in America. You cannot just IGNORE them and pretend that they
are not her. They ARE here in America.

So to drive the point home: There are dozens and dozens of millions of Christ's "sheep" that live
in America and I think you have to recognize that FACT and consistently INCORPORATE that fact into
your posts.

Don't Miss This Next Point, It's Absolutely Vital:

Important point here: Since it was you that selected Sodom as a clear bold comparison to America,
I think you should recognize and incorporate the following fact into your posts: The Sovereign God
specifically and clearly told Abraham that if he could find just 10 righteous people in Sodom, that
He would NOT destroy Sodom for the sake of those 10 righteous people. I have more than 10
righteous people in just my Sunday School Class on any given Sunday morning. There are
well over 16,000,000 Southern Baptists in America and the Southern Baptists are known for their
orthodox doctrinal beliefs and for generally being dedicated Christians who make an honest effort
to live lives pleasing to the Lord and to raise their children accordingly.

I think you simply MUST face this ↑ FACT. God's message to Abraham [and to us because God put
it in His word the Bible] is that God will not throw out the baby with the bathwater. What does
that mean? It means that God would have spared wicked Sodom for the sake of the 10 righteous
people therein, and God's principles DO NOT CHANGE. You must face this: If God would have
spared Sodom for the sake of 10 righteous people, then its UNREASONABLE to hold that God
will destroy America since its a fact that America has, not just 10 righteous people, but she
has 10's of millions of righteous people.

Imo, in light of all that I posted above, you can never again use Sodom as a comparison to
America.

its arrogance [that is America's arrogance]

Again, you must distinguish between the huge numbers of Christ's "sheep" and Satan's "goats"

...its inapt Constitution..

.. lol .. That is so broad and sweeping, that its enters the realm of The Land Of Oz. You're
suggesting you want to see America get rid of the United States Constitution. When we
enter this realm then anything is possible. For example, I DEMAND world peace and I
DEMAND it immediately .. lol .. I DEMAND that all hostility MUST cease immediately in
all threads all across the Internet .. lol .. I DEMAND universal love too and I demand
it right now without waiting.

...lack of small cars and bullet-trains...

.. lol .. In other words that's your way of saying you want America to become LIKE EUROPE

and lack of affordable walkable villages...

Europe again ../grin

its [ie. America] superiority complex...

You are rather bold in your anti-Americanism. You may not like that word, but I don't think you
will have any success convincing the people here that you're not anti-American.

and its denial of its own self-destruction....

I guess that relates in some way to your comparison of America to Sodom?

its divided, gridlocked electorate..that gets its info......spun for them...via sound bytes on Fox...

JC, .. lol ..you must not be very familiar with the American electorate. Try to harmonize what you just said with the
following facts:
(1) Fox News is a CONSERVATIVE news channel
(2) The American electorate gave the liberal Bill Clinton TWO terms as POTUS
(3) The American electorate gave the liberal BHO TWO terms as POTUS
(4) The American electorate is tolerating very liberal political policies so far [I hope that reverses in 2014 & again in 2016]

How does 1, 2, 3, and 4 up there harmonize with your, "gridlocked electorate..that gets its info......spun for them...via sound bytes on Fox"__JC

One more point: Your slur against Fox News makes it pretty clear that you are anti-Conservative too ... so you are boldly
anti-American AND anti-Conservative ... So what are you hoping to accomplish here besides rattling people's cages? .. lol ..

Democracy...is not what I find in..Scripture, Families, and Business.....why?
....Because although God created all men equal....and shows no partiality.....All men are not equipped equally...in the wisdom dept.
....only mature Non Partisan Christian = equipped to vote...in my world view.
(bolded by Jack)

Re what I bolded: JC, we are entering the Land Of Oz again here with your, "only mature Non Partisan Christian = equipped to vote...in my world view"__JC Why is that? Because who is going to get the GREAT HONOR to decide who is or is not a "mature Non Partisan Christian" and can therefore vote? Do you realize that the man or group of men that HAD THE POWER to decide who was or was not a "mature Non Partisan Christian" would be, de facto, the King(s) Of America. You said it, so you must either live with it, or retract it and say you spoke hastily without carefully thinking through your position.

"only mature Non Partisan Christian = equipped to vote...in my world view"__JC

Are you going to stand by your statement up there?

the most ridiculous, unworkable, and practically unchangeable canon....the U.S. Constitution...that created fifty different confused divided states...

Well, I think we can say for certain that you are not out to make friends here in America. To boldly label our United States
Constitution as "the most ridiculous ... canon" is probably the very best way to get all patriotic Americans to IMMEDIATELY STOP TAKING YOU SERIOUSLY.

I mean you can get by with saying that you want to see the United States Constitution improved via the Amendment process, but to label our Constitution as
"the most ridiculous ... canon" is NOT how you win friends and influence people here in America. Your statement would go over real
good in Iran though .. lol .. and in certain of the most liberal parts of Europe.

A Big Huge Grin ... and Cheers.

♫ ♪ ♫ ♪

[jcgood]

Jack Wrote..

But you don't love our country.


Very Important Points In This Next Section:

But...I strongly dislike... the 21st century Sodom culture of America...


I think you should make a clear bold distinction between these two groups of people in America:

(1) The true born again people of God who live in America, including the huge number of people
that are not born again Christians right now, BUT will become true born again Christians before
they die.

(2) The people that will end up belonging to Satan, for example the type people that the Lord
said, "You are of your father the devil." I mean the ungodly, the evil people ... what the Bible
calls the "sons of Satan", etc.

You do not make a clear distinction between these two groups, instead you lump them both
together and then refer to "the 21st century Sodom culture of America" and say you "strongly
dislike it."

My reply:
Jack........slow down...and read......culture is culture...and people are people....

You are conflating ALL PEOPLE ....and CHRISTIANS with American culture...

...where my Bible clearly says that I a pilgrim passing through an evil land.....

Understand that Christians are actually living in the Kingdom of God....Colossians 1:13

...so this is completely your misunderstanding......I hope this helps...

...Also don't be bound by your own literalism.....I hope you aren't cutting off your arms literally....because of sin..

....I can certainly compare America's unquenchable quest for mammon....and it's lawlessness to Sodom
.....any way....my point remains the same
...any country that calls good.... "evil"....and evil...."good"....from it's government policies...is headed to complete collapse..like Sodom

....Please ask me whether or not I am being literal....it will save us time and energy....OK?

Well, I think we can say for certain that you are not out to make friends here in America. To boldly label our United States
Constitution as "the most ridiculous ... canon" is probably the very best way to get all patriotic Americans to IMMEDIATELY STOP TAKING YOU SERIOUSLY.

...I have to be true to myself and my relationship with God.....
...so when it comes to what I believe...I don't sugarcoat.....the severity of the ineptness of this document...to curtail the inevitable gridlock and abuses of power in Congress and in many states......

There is no other viable solution...either the USA returns to it's 1964 values....or Congress needs to be abolished.....

This is not some whim....It has taken me about twenty years to come to my conclusion....

Peace be unto you.

[JackHectorman]

Actually the USA is a Failed, Fragmented Plutocracy (bolded by Jack)

We both know that a nation with a 14 trillion dollar economy is not a failed nation.
You can make a prediction that it will fail, but I can't see into the future and I don't
believe you can either.

The majority of America elects murderers

If you had to go into a court of law and present evidence to a jury that proves
beyond a reasonable doubt that "The majority of America elects murderers",
you could not do that if your life depended upon you doing it. Your definition
of "murder" is not the same as the law's definition of "murder", and so you'd
be left with merely your personal assertion that the legal definition of
"murder" was incorrect.

a nation that is clearly whoring after Mammon.

I would characterize America as a nation that is clearly the most generous nation
on earth with it's Mammon [money] ~~ a nation that has given hundreds of billions
of dollars to other nations .. a nation that also has given the blood of her soldiers
in an effort to set men free ~~ ask South Korea if they agree with what I just said.
And ask Poland if they agree with it? Also ask many nations in Europe if they agree with it?
Ask the United Kingdom if they agree with it. What country do you think delivered Europe from
German Nazism and Italian Fascism? We all know it wasn't Columbia. It was the good old
United States Of America.

So the point is that America has a long history of giving her BLOOD and TREASURE away
to other nations for their benefit as well as our benefit too. America is NOT a selfish
nation.

Actually...I have clearly called out America as 21st century Sodom...
which self-destucts...from its own greed, hypocrisy, arrogance, violence....

You haven't had a chance to read that section of my post up there on America and Sodom.
Maybe that section will change your mind?

Re your [America] "self-destructs": Only God knows the future with regard to whither
America "self-destructs" or not.

which God deals with...in His time

See your prediction that America will "self-destruct" up there.
I don't see how you can speak for God like that? How can you, as a mere man, predict
what God is going to do with regard to America?

This is not my country.....I'm not from here

Yeah, you wouldn't be happy here .. lol ..

PS
I don't think you will be happy anywhere until you do what I did, which I
put at the very bottom of this post.

I'm just watching this evil giant slowly fall ...just like Goliath.... (emphasis by Jack)

This "evil giant"!!?? I think BW was right! You should move to North Korea or somewhere OUT OF AMERICA, ASAP.

If the Lord was here.....would he be hanging out with the wall street crowd who think that they "have it all together"....
or the broken-hearted in the streets with the occupy movement that are appalled at the unbridled greed and attack on labor that is exalted in
today's Sodom... (emphasis by Jack)

.. lol .. the so-called Occupy Movement" was mostly a bunch of spoiled kiddies still living in their parent's house and/or dope sniffers
and/or moochers and parasites and/or the perpetually discontented and/or hippy types that had read stories about the Crazy 60's and decided
to camp out in the streets for awhile just to rattle Uncle Wall Street's cage ..

.. heh heh, but you will notice that none of these hippy-dippy spoiled children [locked into adult bodies] had any intention of ACTUALLY LEAVING
America. They know which side their bread is buttered on .. lol .. They love their Uncle Sugar!

Capital has won...Labor has lost.....and now Capital owns not only Wall Street ...but America's very soul.

Actually it is the Sovereign God that owns America and it is He that has a specific detailed blue-printed plan that is being
worked out and that is precisely on exact schedule. God is in absolute control of history and of the future and all we Christians
know that, thats why we pray to God every day and ask for His protection and ask Him to "work things out for us" ~~ its because
we are convinced that God is in control. [I made that point because I think that's where the emphasis ought to be .. its much more
comforting to the soul, than your "Capital .. owns America's soul" thingy.]

My actual recommendations...that will never happen...
The first step in making America a better place.....is for people to .
1) Repent....(greek)...Re-think the esteeming of America better than it really is.....Romans 12:3
2) stop worshipping it more than the Kingdom of God.....Matthew 6:33
3) take a big axe and destroy the lies about America EVER being a God fearing Nation...when Scripture clearly records Israel's devout periods under God fearing Kings...Chronicles....
4)take a big pair of scissors....and seriously get rid of all idols.....staring with our unnecessary and practically non-workable Congress ...democracy, usury, and re-regulate capitalism to 1964 standards...and re-negotiate the true meaning of fair and reasonable labor compensation....
5) Establishing a Non-Partisan....Board of Directors...in lieu of Congress to actually get things done....

Your ideas, sir, are in Mother Goose Land, here on this stuff!
You did say your recommendations would "never happen", nonetheless, I have to tell you that your #'s (4) and (5)
are the identical same stuff as Alice In Wonderland. When a man such as yourself allows himself to reach the
conclusions you have allowed your mind to reach, he has gone DEEP into WONDERLAND and has permanently left
The Land Of Reality. You cannot seriously communicate with 21st century people and seriously say stuff like you
said in your # 4 and # 5 .. because they will reach the conclusion that you have lost your mind ... stuff like your
"get rid" of the United States Congress, the United States Constitution, and the American Republic, and establish
a "Non-Partisan Board of Directors ...in lieu of Congress" puts your political ideas in the category
of the White Rabbit in Alice In Wonderland. Your ideas, sir, are in Mother Goose Land, here on this stuff!

IF and only IF I believed that the USA was a God fearing country filled with Genuine Born Again Christians;
who would love their neighbors and do righteousness...You betcha I would be a total right-winger....JC Goodman

JC, I think the magnificent idea of a "work in progress" is totally absent from your thinking. You clearly want the world
fixed according to your lights, and you want it done TODAY. Sorry, but the Sovereign God does not allow any mere man
to decide issues like that. The Sovereign God will fix the world, but He will do it His way according to His Plan, and on
His time-table, not your way, and not on your time-table.

America is a "work in progress" ... the world is a "work in progress" ...
even God's Christian Church is a "work in progress" for example many true
born again Christians owned slaves in America in the 1860's. There
is today not a single mainstream Christian denomination that does not condemn
slavery here in the 21st century. That is progress.

You and I are "works in progress" to, JC.

You are to impatient. God is in control, not you and I.


_____________________________



JC, I will tell you something that I did years and years ago, and my doing this helped me greatly to become a happier
Christian, and its something I do not think you have yet done, but its something I think you ought to do, and I think
if you would actually do this, you'd be a much happier Christian.

Here is what I did years ago, that I think you need to do also:

I resigned as General Manager Of The Universe. I handed in my resignation
to the Sovereign God, and apologized to Him for years and years of me
trying to do His job for Him, instead of me as a mere man, recognizing
that He was God, and I was not.

Cheers.

♫ ♪ ♫ ♪

PS
I sincerely apologize for writing such a short post. I will
try to write more next time .. lol ..



♫

[JackHectorman]

My reply:
Jack........slow down...and read......culture is culture...and people are people....
You are conflating ALL PEOPLE ....and CHRISTIANS with American culture...

You're not seriously reading my posts. You're not actually coming to grips with the points
I am making about God, Sodom, the Christian Church, and America.

I think you're scanning over what I write knowing BEFORE you even scan, what you
are going to say, which is to merely re-state your position.

.. lol .. They even have a name for that! They call it "posting past each other." In other
words, your mind seems to be closed to anything that does not harmonize with your positions.

Its nice to know that. I can write posts just for the thread now, even though they
are addressed to you.

....I can certainly compare America's unquenchable quest for mammon....and it's lawlessness to Sodom
.....any way....my point remains the same
...any country that calls good.... "evil"....and evil...."good"....from it's government policies...is headed to complete collapse..like Sodom

.. /Grin .. That up there is another example. You are NOT even seriously considering my points in the
posts to which you are "responding" ~~ my points about God, and Sodom, and the Christian Church,
and America.

...I have to be true to myself and my relationship with God.....

Well it is near to 100% certain that the Sovereign God does NOT want to get rid of the United States Congress and the American Republic and the United States Constitution and let some group of "Directors" decide who is "non-partisan" enough to vote, or to put some Board Of Directors in charge of running America.

...so when it comes to what I believe...I don't sugarcoat.....the severity of the ineptness of this document...to curtail the inevitable gridlock and abuses of power in Congress and in many states......

Well, now that you have come to believe it, all ya gotta do is sell it. How is that working out for ya? You making any converts? I'd bet NOT. I'd bet not a single convert.

There is no other viable solution...either the USA returns to it's 1964 values....or Congress needs to be abolished.....

Here is what I did years ago and I think you need to do it also:

I resigned as General Manager Of The Universe. I handed in my resignation
to the Sovereign God, and apologized to Him for years and years of me
trying to do His job for Him, instead of me as a mere man, recognizing
that He was God, and I was not.

This is not some whim....It has taken me about twenty years to come to my conclusion....

I am sorry that you have allowed your mind to reach these kinds of conclusions. They will take you
straight to the land of The Utterly Impossible and from there to Frustration City. And there you
will live out your days.

Peace be unto you.

... To you too! ... lol .. I think you need peace more than I do. You're definitely NOT a "happy camper", as the old saying goes.

♫ ♪ ♫ ♪

`

[JackHectorman]

JC Wrote:
Democracy...is not what I find in..Scripture, Families, and Business.....why?
....Because although God created all men equal....and shows no partiality.....All men are not equipped equally...in the wisdom dept.
....only mature Non Partisan Christian = equipped to vote...in my world view.
(bolded by Jack)

Re what I bolded:

JC, we are entering the Land Of Oz again here with your, "only mature Non Partisan Christian = equipped to vote...in my world view"__JC

Why is that?

Because who is going to get the GREAT HONOR to decide who is or is not a "mature Non Partisan Christian" and can therefore vote? This question needs an answer!

Do you realize that the man or group of men that HAD THE POWER to decide who was or was not a "mature Non Partisan Christian" would be, de facto, the King(s) Of America. You said it, so you must either live with it, or retract it and say you spoke hastily without carefully thinking through your position.

"only mature Non Partisan Christian = equipped to vote...in my world view"__JC

Are you going to stand by your statement up there?

♫

[jcgood]

....Jack..
I am seriously...reading your posts....

and I am not responsible if you can't "connect the dots" in your understanding of what I have written...to come to the place where I am....

...Understand that I am the original author of my work with God's help...and I can tell by your feedback that we are very far apart

I say this in love...you certainly need to ask more questions....because ...

I perceive that your belief in America's ultimate salvation.....is not my understanding of Scripture...

...Therefore your assessment of America is tainted...to see its hopeful transformation...

..I simply see America as part of the dark, evil world....with a lot of deceived , powerful hypocrites in powerful places
telling us what is important..

It's the same old scam when our Lord and all His prophets had to deal with this....

We might as well stop here...because I am firm and stand by everything I have said

...because I see my statements...scripturally....valid

So.....I am unchanged unless you can prayerfully guide me with more than your own opinions....eg Scripture.

Peace....and.... prayer....

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

Je rentrais à la maison dans le Vermont de Montréal ... pendant une tempête de neige

Along with NH, Vermont is my favorite state. Why on earth would you move to Oregon? (Who chooses to live in Oregon?) Was this a woman's fault?

FL

[JackHectorman]

....Jack..
I am seriously...reading your posts....

/smile ...

I have to make this point before I retire for the evening with my lovely wife to soak up some culture
[I have Beethoven's 9th in mind .. its really quite moving].

Its not honest, fair, or correct for you to compare America to Sodom, and here are my reasons:

(1) We all know you mean the Sodom as described in the book of Genesis.

(2) The Sodom of Genesis did NOT have even 10 righteous people in that city.

(3) Based upon the fact of #2 and the other elements the Bible records about Sodom, we can
say that the Sodomites characteristically practiced .. eh .. sodomy, and murder, and violence.
[And its reasonable to conclude in light of that, that they did not draw the line at (say) adultery
or any other sin they wanted to commit.

(4) If there was a family of ten people, call them The Smith Family, and 7 were good Christians and
3 were murderers and sodomites, then it would be INCORRECT to compare The Smith Family to
Murderers and Sodomites.

(5) However it would be correct to compare those 3 murderers and sodomites that were members
of The Smith Family to Murderers and Sodomites.

(6) You are refusing to SEPERATE the two groups when you characterize America as Sodom, or
when you compare America to the Sodom of Genesis [which is the Sodom you are talking about.]

(7) I gave you a list of Christian denominations up-thread: Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, Protestants,
Catholics, Evangelicals, Southern Baptists, Pentecostals, etc. that are NOT doing what the Sodomites of
Genesis were doing. I mentioned that the Southern Baptists alone had over 16,000,000 members [they are
America's largest Protestant denomination] and they are generally known to be orthodox and good Christian
people.

Conclusion: I would think you would need to do one of two things:

(1) Refute all those 7 points up there.

OR

(2) Retract your use of the Genesis city of Sodom as being comparable to America.

Cheers.

♫ ♪ ♫ ♪

[RickD]

....Jack..
I am seriously...reading your posts....

/smile ...

I have to make this point before I retire for the evening with my lovely wife to soak up some culture
[I have Beethoven's 9th in mind .. its really quite moving].

Its not honest, fair, or correct for you to compare America to Sodom, and here are my reasons:

(1) We all know you mean the Sodom as described in the book of Genesis.

(2) The Sodom of Genesis did NOT have even 10 righteous people in that city.

(3) Based upon the fact of #2 and the other elements the Bible records about Sodom, we can
say that the Sodomites characteristically practiced .. eh .. sodomy, and murder, and violence.
[And its reasonable to conclude in light of that, that they did not draw the line at (say) adultery
or any other sin they wanted to commit.

(4) If there was a family of ten people, call them The Smith Family, and 7 were good Christians and
3 were murderers and sodomites, then it would be INCORRECT to compare The Smith Family to
Murderers and Sodomites.

(5) However it would be correct to compare those 3 murderers and sodomites that were members
of The Smith Family to Murderers and Sodomites.

(6) You are refusing to SEPERATE the two groups when you characterize America as Sodom, or
when you compare America to the Sodom of Genesis [which is the Sodom you are talking about.]

(7) I gave you a list of Christian denominations up-thread: Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, Protestants,
Catholics, Evangelicals, Southern Baptists, Pentecostals, etc. that are NOT doing what the Sodomites of
Genesis were doing. I mentioned that the Southern Baptists alone had over 16,000,000 members [they are
America's largest Protestant denomination] and they are generally known to be orthodox and good Christian
people.

Conclusion: I would think you would need to do one of two things:

(1) Refute all those 7 points up there.

OR

(2) Retract your use of the Genesis city of Sodom as being comparable to America.

Cheers.

♫ ♪ ♫ ♪

Jack,

FYI, jcgood doesn't let the facts get in the way of his rants. His rants are like a tidal wave. His rants completely roll over anything in their path, including truth, logic, and common sense.

[jcgood]

Jack....
I already wrote to you in the former post.....that it doesn't serve anyone well for you to decide that all comparisons must be literal...

...or at least don't exempt your self from the same silliness...that you are trying to put on me.
...for example...

Re what I bolded: JC, we are entering the Land Of Oz again here with your, "only mature Non Partisan Christian = equipped to vote...in my world view"__JC Why is that? Because who is going to get the GREAT HONOR to decide who is or is not a "mature Non Partisan Christian" and can therefore vote? Do you realize that the man or group of men that HAD THE POWER to decide who was or was not a "mature Non Partisan Christian" would be, de facto, the King(s) Of America. You said it, so you must either live with it, or retract it and say you spoke hastily without carefully thinking through your position.

...understand that it i would be silly of me to now give you a lecture on why...I am not.. "entering the Land Of Oz"...

That's exactly the silliness..and the arrogance of someone trying to tell the author of a piece...what I meant....

You have not moved my position one inch....Sodom= the world =America is part of the world where I have to endure the stench of a materialistic, sensual and rotting culture.....the pride of life....

We have a gulf of understanding between us that we may never be able bridge...my earthly nationality died on the Lord's Cross.......I am not from here

....The Bible has Kings......why can't you learn from that example?....we don't find democracy in any place where wisdom resides...sorry Jack

You will not reach my understanding....until you empty yourself of your own way of thinking....

Which is common in those...who would rather be right....than actually understand what the author is saying...
and end up in...."The Land Of Confusion"....writing inappropriate advice

Peace..Out

[jcgood]

Rick D.....

FYI, jcgood doesn't let the facts get in the way of his rants. His rants are like a tidal wave. His rants completely roll over anything in their path, including truth, logic, and common sense.

...and rolls right over your complete understanding of what I wrote...
....people that understand.....actually discuss things...
...not just post hyperbolic sound bytes....without any specific references

...that's too low of a threshold for any virtue or nobility to enter

[B. W.]

Rick D.....

FYI, jcgood doesn't let the facts get in the way of his rants. His rants are like a tidal wave. His rants completely roll over anything in their path, including truth, logic, and common sense.

...and rolls right over your complete understanding of what I wrote...
....people that understand.....actually discuss things...
...not just post hyperbolic sound bytes....without any specific references

...that's too low of a threshold for any virtue or nobility to enter

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWBUl7oT9sA[/youtube]

[JackHectorman]

Jack,
FYI, jcgood doesn't let the facts get in the way of his rants. His rants are like a tidal wave. His rants completely roll over anything in their path, including truth, logic, and common sense.

Rick,

/Big Grin ... Thanks Rick, I hear ya, and I now fully understand what you said, its so true.

Also I note that trying to talk to JC is like trying to talk to a person from another planet.

______


[No offense intended JC, there isn't anything wrong with being from another planet. Some of my in-laws are from Pluto
and they're pretty reasonable folks, except when they start talking about getting rid of the United States Constitution,
and the United States Congress, and the America Democratic Republic, and putting a group of non-partisan Directors
in charge of America.]

.. lol ..

Cheers.

♫ ♪ ♫ ♪


`

[JackHectorman]

Rick D.....

FYI, jcgood doesn't let the facts get in the way of his rants. His rants are like a tidal wave. His rants completely roll over anything in their path, including truth, logic, and common sense.

...and rolls right over your complete understanding of what I wrote...
....people that understand.....actually discuss things...
...not just post hyperbolic sound bytes....without any specific references

...that's too low of a threshold for any virtue or nobility to enter

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWBUl7oT9sA[/youtube]

BW,

.. lol .. Ah, that was funny. I got a big laugh outta that one.

Monty Python, I believe.

[The dude on the wall sounded like Peter Sellers .. of The Pink Panther fame.]

/grin ..

♫ ♪