Great video lecture on the Nephilim by Lynn Marzulli

[DRDS]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkuHJatMQTY

GB guys!

[Gman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkuHJatMQTY
GB guys!

LA Marzulli makes outrageous claims..

[DRDS]

Well now, the Bible in and of itself, makes outrageous claims, doesn't mean it's not true though. Now I'm not completely sold out to his ideas nor am I dogmatic about his ideas, I'm just highly intellectually open to them. Our views of these non essential matters can and does change over time.

Again I primarily like the way the OT God is presented when you factor in the Nephilem otherwise you have a much harder time trying to reconcile God being both all loving and wiping out entire tribes of people including women and children. Not to mention, those megalithic structures, if they were not built by massive giants and or with some sort of supernatural type of technology, just how were they built? I mean even today, with our highly technical ways of building big skyscrapers would be hard pressed to even attempt to build such structures.

So I just don't see a group of normal sized and normal strength men being able to query, drag, and LIFE such massive stones and build them to such precise measurements. But if you or anyone else thinks you can successfully debunk all of his material, feel free to try, I would love to see what you can come up with as a better alternative explanation.

[bippy123]

Well now, the Bible in and of itself, makes outrageous claims, doesn't mean it's not true though. Now I'm not completely sold out to his ideas nor am I dogmatic about his ideas, I'm just highly intellectually open to them. Our views of these non essential matters can and does change over time.

Again I primarily like the way the OT God is presented when you factor in the Nephilem otherwise you have a much harder time trying to reconcile God being both all loving and wiping out entire tribes of people including women and children. Not to mention, those megalithic structures, if they were not built by massive giants and or with some sort of supernatural type of technology, just how were they built? I mean even today, with our highly technical ways of building big skyscrapers would be hard pressed to even attempt to build such structures.

So I just don't see a group of normal sized and normal strength men being able to query, drag, and LIFE such massive stones and build them to such precise measurements. But if you or anyone else thinks you can successfully debunk all of his material, feel free to try, I would love to see what you can come up with as a better alternative explanation.

I particularly enjoyed the video links you have give me on this subject DRDS. I find the grid system to be very fascinating and this is what seems to catch my interest most.
The fact that they all line up perfectly is particularly interesting. History is filled with people making outrageous claims Gman, but when a new discovery comes about it usually comes from such people.

[prolouie]

the topic is also discussed by Trey Smith who also has a very interesting video on the myth of evolution. Does any one know anything about Trey?

[DRDS]

Yes I'm familiar with Trey, he's most known for exposing televangelists like Mike Murdock, when Trey was much younger, he broke into Mike's house and found cocaine and a huge collection of pornography! And just like you were eluding to prolouie, he does do some presentations on the nephilim. Speaking of the nephilim, I saw this video just a little while ago,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJZF7NDpMwQ

Apparently some scientists did some studies on the dna collected for some of those enlongated skulls and according to their studies claim that the dna has characteristics that unlike any human or primate that's ever been studied. I know more research must be done, but this is very interesting in and of itself. I guess we shall see what it leads to in the future.

[RickD]

For those that believe fallen angels and humans "bred", and the result is Nephilim, how do you explain that in light of God creating different "kinds"? For example, dogs and cats are both physical species, but cannot interbreed. Angels are not physical beings, but apparently they have the ability to create life, by breeding with humans? From where did fallen angels get this ability to create life?

[prolouie]

I watched the video and was stunned by its content. I remember the fascination I had with books written in my youth such as chariots of the gods and such. This makes the whole bible experience a little bit more interesting from another perspective. I loved his presentation style also. The more I read the bible the more I learn. It is amazing to me how some of the smallest passages in the bible can have such great impact. I was bowled over when I was told that the big bang theory came from a catholic priest. It gave the meaning of LET THERE BE LIGHT a whole new meaning. I do not see any problem with God creating a big bang. In fact he probably did.

[prolouie]

I guess the answer is God gave them the ability. It is written in the Bible that they saw the daughters of men and the sons of God Married them and that is were we got the heroes of old and the men of renown.

[RickD]

I guess the answer is God gave them the ability. It is written in the Bible that they saw the daughters of men and the sons of God Married them and that is were we got the heroes of old and the men of renown.

I don't see that as a scripturally sound argument, I guess. If only animals of the same "kind" can produce offspring, claiming spiritual beings(fallen angels) are able to "breed" with humans, goes against the order that God established, doesn't it?

The bible doesn't mention anywhere that I'm aware of, that angels have the ability to create life.

[Jac3510]

I guess the answer is God gave them the ability. It is written in the Bible that they saw the daughters of men and the sons of God Married them and that is were we got the heroes of old and the men of renown.

It actually doesn't say that--the underlined part, I mean. Look at the actual text:

• Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, 2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose. 3 And the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.” 4 [The nephilim] were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

A close reading of the text says the nephilim (whoever they were) were on the earth when the "sons of God" (whoever they were) had kids with the daughters of men. It does not say that they were those children. The "those" in 4b could either go back to the children of the union or of the nephilim themselves. The Hebrew is ambiguous here in every way. I am of the view that the nephilim were the mighty men, but that's given my view of who the nephilim were and who the sons of God were.

So you could be right, but you can't just say "that is where we got" those guys from. It seems much more likely to me that there are several groups all mentioned together: the sons of God (who I take to be the godly line of Seth), the daughters of men (the women of the line of Cain), and the nephilim/mighty men (the tribal warlords who ruled the world prior to the establishment of human government).

Just my $.02.

[bippy123]

I guess the answer is God gave them the ability. It is written in the Bible that they saw the daughters of men and the sons of God Married them and that is were we got the heroes of old and the men of renown.

I don't see that as a scripturally sound argument, I guess. If only animals of the same "kind" can produce offspring, claiming spiritual beings(fallen angels) are able to "breed" with humans, goes against the order that God established, doesn't it?

The bible doesn't mention anywhere that I'm aware of, that angels have the ability to create life.

Rick, maybe the fallen angels manipulated the genes of humans to allow for this to happen. Wasnt it said in the bible that this is unnatural?
As far as the bible saying that angels could create life, I dont think genetic manipulation is teh same as creating life.

I remember this joke once about God challenging the atheist to create life and the atheist said he could manipulate genes and then God says "no you must create your own dirt first"

Isnt this also possible?

[RickD]

I guess the answer is God gave them the ability. It is written in the Bible that they saw the daughters of men and the sons of God Married them and that is were we got the heroes of old and the men of renown.

I don't see that as a scripturally sound argument, I guess. If only animals of the same "kind" can produce offspring, claiming spiritual beings(fallen angels) are able to "breed" with humans, goes against the order that God established, doesn't it?

The bible doesn't mention anywhere that I'm aware of, that angels have the ability to create life.

Rick, maybe the fallen angels manipulated the genes of humans to allow for this to happen. Wasnt it said in the bible that this is unnatural?
As far as the bible saying that angels could create life, I dont think genetic manipulation is teh same as creating life.

I remember this joke once about God challenging the atheist to create life and the atheist said he could manipulate genes and then God says "no you must create your own dirt first"

Isnt this also possible?

Hi Bippy,

I hope you're feeling better.

Manipulating genes is one thing, but Nephilim are supposed to be offspring of a female human, and a "male" fallen angel. Angels are spiritual beings. I guess I'm not convinced that a purely spiritual being can "breed" with a human.

If you are correct, and those fallen angels manipulated human genes, then we would just have abnormal human offspring. Not half human, half fallen angel offspring.

Do you see what I'm saying?

[bippy123]

I guess the answer is God gave them the ability. It is written in the Bible that they saw the daughters of men and the sons of God Married them and that is were we got the heroes of old and the men of renown.

I don't see that as a scripturally sound argument, I guess. If only animals of the same "kind" can produce offspring, claiming spiritual beings(fallen angels) are able to "breed" with humans, goes against the order that God established, doesn't it?

The bible doesn't mention anywhere that I'm aware of, that angels have the ability to create life.

Rick, maybe the fallen angels manipulated the genes of humans to allow for this to happen. Wasnt it said in the bible that this is unnatural?
As far as the bible saying that angels could create life, I dont think genetic manipulation is teh same as creating life.

I remember this joke once about God challenging the atheist to create life and the atheist said he could manipulate genes and then God says "no you must create your own dirt first"

Isnt this also possible?

Hi Bippy,

I hope you're feeling better.

Manipulating genes is one thing, but Nephilim are supposed to be offspring of a female human, and a "male" fallen angel. Angels are spiritual beings. I guess I'm not convinced that a purely spiritual being can "breed" with a human.

If you are correct, and those fallen angels manipulated human genes, then we would just have abnormal human offspring. Not half human, half fallen angel offspring.

Do you see what I'm saying?

Thanks Rick, still struggling with the itching and the doctor said I wont know if im cured for another 2 to 3 weeks as it takes that long for the scabies bug to die without breeding. Tough little bugger lol
What I hate most is missing church on sunday as the scabies is contagious so I dont want to spread it to anyone else.

I can see where you are coming from as far as the fallen angels being able to take physical form. I wonder if there is cripture that would speak about this clearly one way or another.

[Jac3510]

I'm sure you've read, "At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven" (Matt. 22:30). If the angels are not given in marriage, it follows that they are not the type of beings to marry at all. It would be cruel of God to create a being with a propensity to/capacity for marriage and then deny it of them. Now if they are not the types of beings that marry, it seems to follow that they do not have those functions that necessitate and constitute that which makes marriage unique--the marital act. All that is to say, if angels are not given in marriage, it seems to follow that they do not have the natural capacity for reproduction. If that is the case, then they couldn't do what this interpretation of Gen 6 has them doing.

Remember in all this that these people are just assuming that angels have the capability and power of procreating, much less that they can do so with human beings. But they are not humans. So why should we assume that they can do that at all? I, frankly, don't think that we should, so as far as I'm concerned, the "nephilim-are-offspring-of-men-and-angels" people can't even get their argument off the ground.

And none of this, by the way, is coming from an anti-supernatural bias as the video suggests. I have no problem with the supernatural. What I do have a problem with is the claim that just because we say something is supernatural we somehow have the right to stop using reason and that we have the right to start positing irrational ideas. All things--including God--act in accordance with their nature. Nothing--including God--does anything beyond or outside of its nature, that is, nothing does anything it does not have the natural capacity for. Since there is no reason to believe that angels have the capacity by nature to reproduce, much less to reproduce with humans, but on the contrary there is reason to believe that they do NOT have that capacity, then it is irrational to propose that they did so.

At least, that's what the Scripture seems to imply to me.