How pagan rulers imposed the Trinity God.

[jerzy]

I don’t suppose many Trinitarians know how their faith came about.

325 AD - Constantine convenes the Council of Nicaea in order to develop a statement of faith that can unify the church. The Nicene Creed is written, declaring that "the Father and the Son are of the same substance" (homoousios). Emperor Constantine who was also the high priest of the pagan religion of the Unconquered Sun presided over this council. According to the Encyclopedia Britannica:

"Constantine himself presided, actively guiding the discussions and personally proposed the crucial formula expressing the relationship of Christ to God in the creed issued by the council. "of one substance with the Father."

The American Academic Encyclopedia states:
"Although this was not Constantine’s first attempt to reconcile factions in Christianity, it was the first time he had used the imperial office to IMPOSE a settlement."

At the end of this council, Constantine sided with Athanasius over Arius and exiled Arius to Illyria.

328 AD - Athanasius becomes bishop of Alexandria.

328 AD - Constantine recalls Arius from Illyria.

335 AD - Constantine now sides with Arius and exiles Athanasius to Trier.

337 AD - A new emperor, Contantius, orders the return of Athanasius to Alexandria.

339 AD - Athanasius flees Alexandria in anticipation of being expelled.

341 AD - Two councils are held in Antioch this year. During this council, the First, Second, and Third Arian Confessions are written, thereby beginning the attempt to produce a formal doctrine of faith to oppose the Nicene Creed.

343 AD - At the Council of Sardica, Eastern Bishops demand the removal of Athanasius.

346 AD - Athanasius is restored to Alexandria.

351 AD - A second anti - Nicene council is held in Sirmium.

353 AD - A council is held at Aries during Autumn that is directed against Athanasius.

355 AD - A council is held in Milan. Athanasius is again condemned.

356 AD - Athanasius is deposed on February 8th, beginning his third exile.

357 AD - Third Council of Sirmium is convened. Both homoousios and homoiousios are avoided as unbiblical, and it is agreed that the Father is greater than His subordinate Son.

359 AD - The Synod of Seleucia is held which affirms that Christ is "like the Father," It does not however, specify how the Son is like the Father.

361 AD - A council is held in Antioch to affirm Arius’ positions.

380 AD - Emperor Theodosius the Great declares Christianity the official state religion of the empire.

381 AD - The First Council of Constantinople is held to review the controversy since Nicaea. Emperor Theodosius the Great establishes the creed of Nicaea as the standard for his realm. The Nicene Creed is re-evaluated and accepted with the addition of clauses on the Holy Spirit and other matters. (History of Arian Controversy)

Thus the pagan ruler decided upon Christian faith.

Congratulation Trinitarians.

[jerzy]

Why Christians do not worship the Father the only true/one/our God?

Is it because they are not HIS true worshippers?

But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

After this manner therefore pray (worship) ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

Is it because they do not follow the Lord Jesus Christ?

And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

Is it because they care less about the eternal life?

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Since when He who sent is equal to the one He sent?

Since when HE, the LORD, who made him Lord and Christ is equal to HIM?

[RickD]

Jerzy,

Have you made up your mind about this, or are you really willing to discuss this subject openly?

[Silvertusk]

This board is obviously not for you Jerzy I suggest you find another one that supports your non-tinitarian beliefs.

[jerzy]

The three Gods lie.

God didn’t tell man that He consisted of three Gods. The phrase “Trinity God” doesn’t appear in the scriptures. Man added it in the clear violation of God’s command.

As the matter of fact, the Trinitarians are unable to explain what the term really means.

In their corner stone statement of the Trinity doctrine they say this:

The Athanasian Creed

So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God.

This Athanasian lie is supposed to be made true by its subsequent lie provided in their next line:

The Athanasian Creed

And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.

Can you believe that almost half of the world’s educated and intelligent people don’t find anything wrong with such an illogical Creed?

The statement that there are three Gods is absolutely contrary to hundreds of such proof texts whereby we are explicitly and repeatedly told that the Father is the only true/one/our God:

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.


The Trinitarians are rejecting hundreds of such proof texts having none.

[jerzy]

We believe in one God, the Father

This statement of faith comes from opening phrase of the founding Trinitarian Nicene Creed:

We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen.

It comes from the fundamental teaching of OT:

So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.
For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.

It is confirmed in the NT:

Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word (rhema – utterance. Never Jesus) of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

It comes from the fundamental teaching of Christ who makes the eternal life subject to this:

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

It is further confirmed in hundreds of proof texts like these:

Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

No Trinitarian has ever explained why they reject the Nicene Creed’s statement, the prophets, the apostles or Jesus’ condition for the eternal life.

No Trinitarian has ever pointed to a text stating that hundreds of such proof texts like were abolished, suspended or amended.

No Trinitarian has ever pointed to a text stating that the eternal life is subject to knowledge that God is Trinity. As a matter of fact the word “trinity” never appears in the scripture. Those teaching the Trinity God (the smoke screen for blasphemous worship of their two “Gods” instead of the only one true God the Father) do it in clear violation of God’s commandment.

Further, those who preach gospel different to the one preached by Paul (, , and opening of each epistle) are accursed ().

This is the proof that the Trinitarians have been accursed:

- The Trinitarians were subjected to the horrible wars with Muslims for centuries.
- Then the Trinitarians called (under false pretences) holy wars against the Muslims (The Crusades).
- Then the Trinitarians butchered millions upon millions of their own in their barbaric wars like the WW 2.

They care less for the Christ’s teaching that by observing people’s fruits one should determine if they are his disciples. They care less that the Trinitarians are the most barbaric organisation known to man for almost two millennia.
They care less for the fact that their forefathers butchered their own theologians who dared pointing to God’s word.

[B. W.]

Please note this edited version I wrote on another thread would fit here in answering Jerzy:


YHWH appeared to Moses , Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel (Exo 24:9, 10, 11) They saw God (Elohim) in theophany. Then in Exo 24:12 YHWH called to Moses to meet him on the mountain top. He charged the leaders to stay and wait for him if they could (Exo 24:14) then spent 40 days with YHWH.

Later in Exo 33:18-23 Moses desired to see the full Glory of God but God would not permit this to mortal man. That Full Glory was his three Presences (Panim) in full oneness. Moses encountered each Panim of the Godhead. Moses wanted YHWH’s Panim to go before Israel (Exo 33:14, 15). Moses saw God’s Presences in theophanies and now want to see the full Glory of God's Form.

In the Bible, the Lord reveals himself according to his three presences. It is through the bible how we come to gain a simple glimpse of the incomprehensibility of God’s nature, essence, which leaves one in awe and wonderment. I am content with that and find great peace in that too. Far greater than I can even express in word or print.

The Elders saw Elohim – God – and shared a meal with Him. Yet, what later happened after that? Moses, was called by YHWH to go into the cloud and fire and meet him on the Mountain Top. The three presences of God’s oneness ‘was’ on the Mountain. Moses had to go through the cloud Theophany and the Fire Theophany to meet YHWH on the Mountain (Exo 24:16-17).

The symbolism of this event is lost to folks due to how one views it. However, John the Baptist declared that Jesus would baptize with Fire which has been discerned as the Holy Spirit. Moses entered onto the Mountain Top through the Cloud (Exo 24:18) which represents Jesus Christ because no man can approach the Father unless through Jesus. There, Moses met the Father midst the Fire and Cloud.

Now, others reading Exodus 24 will see something different, or when Reading Genesis 18:1,2 they see these verses differently too. In Genesis, people see angels and not the three theophany of Panim of God’s oneness with the Holy Spirit and Jesus heading off to destroy the cities on the plains after examining Lot’s fruit – no other righteous in the cities, Gen 18:17-33. Amos 4:11 JSP explains it further. People will see the same things, yet, not see the LORD as he revels himself in Theophany.

As for myself, I see God’s Nature in words the bible uses to describe him in a manner we can understand him. I view God in the mystery He himself sets forth in the bible. So did those who set forth the creeds to combat heresy - same which Jerzy is lost in.

Jezy would do well to explore the same – how – simple method of noting and color coding the names God uses in the Old Testament. LORD is YHWH but God is Elohim, EL, etc and etc. So color code the forms of God uses as El and its varients as well as note when and how HaElohim is used. Best way to begin to see the wonderment of God and find Jesus Christ who alone is author of eternity and salvation…
-
-
-

[Christian2]

[quote="jerzy"]I don’t suppose many Trinitarians know how their faith came about.

325 AD - Constantine convenes the Council of Nicaea in order to develop a statement of faith that can unify the church. The Nicene Creed is written, declaring that "the Father and the Son are of the same substance" (homoousios). Emperor Constantine who was also the high priest of the pagan religion of the Unconquered Sun presided over this council. According to the Encyclopedia Britannica:

"Constantine himself presided, actively guiding the discussions and personally proposed the crucial formula expressing the relationship of Christ to God in the creed issued by the council. "of one substance with the Father." ..."

Constantine did not vote.

The Trinity is Biblical.

http://www.monergism.com/topics/jesus-c ... ity-christ

Early Trinitarian quotes before 325AD:

http://carm.org/early-trinitarian-quotes

The Bible teaches the doctrine of the Trinity:

Who does the Bible say is God?
The Father ()? Yes!
The Son (; ,; )? Yes!
The Holy Spirit ()? Yes!
The one and only true God ()? Yes!

Therefore the Bible says that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are all Jehovah God.

Who raised Jesus from the dead?
The Father ()? Yes!
The Son (; ,)? Yes!
The Holy Spirit ()? Yes!
God (, , ,; ,; )? Yes!

Therefore the Bible says that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit in the unity as God were responsible for raising Jesus from the dead.

Who saves man?
Who REGENERATES man?
The Father ()? Yes!
The Son (, )? Yes!
The Holy Spirit (; )? Yes!
God ()? Yes!

Therefore the Bible says that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit in the unity as God are responsible for regenerating man.

Who JUSTIFIES man?
The Father (, cf. )? Yes!
The Son (, ; )? Yes!
The Holy Spirit (; )? Yes!
God (, )? Yes!

Therefore the Bible says that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit in the unity as God are responsible for justifying man.

Who SANCTIFIES man?
The Father (Jude 1)? Yes!
The Son ()? Yes!
The Holy Spirit ()? Yes!
God ()? Yes!

Therefore the Bible says that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit in the unity as God are responsible for regenerating man.

Who propitiated God's just anger against man for his sins?
The Father (; , , )? Yes!
The Son (; ; )? Yes!
The Holy Spirit ()? Yes!
God (; )? Yes!

Therefore the Bible says that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit in the unity as God had propitiated God's just anger against man for his sins?

BIBLICAL CONCLUSION: The Bible clearly teaches the doctrine of the Trinity.

I suggest you not use articles written by Lewis Loflin, whose educational background is being a graduate from Northeast State Technical Community College in Computer Information Technology and university parallel.

[1over137]

There was a bug concerning bible verses. It is now fixed. Christian2, you can now fix your above post.

[PeteSinCA]

jerzy, your 18 centuries ago conspiracy theory doesn't work. It's irrelevant. The New Testament clearly teaches:

* The Father is God;

* The Son is God;

* The Holy Spirit is God;

* The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are separate persons;

* There is one God.

The last book of the New Testament was completed about 2 1/2 centuries before Constantine became emperor, making your conspiracy theory irrelevant-by-reason-of-anachronism.

[RickD]

Just an FYI for anyone responding to jerzy's posts. Jerzy is no longer with us. He's on "permanent vacation".

If anyone has any questions, you can pm me.

[PeteSinCA]

Thanks for the info, Rick. vBulletin SW displays the status "Banned" for members where that is the case, but the SW this board uses seems not to have that function. Anyway, I was not aware of jerzy's involuntary absence, and was not intending to be rude by posting a response to which (s)he could not retort.

I try to be more clear and direct when I'm being rude, .

[RickD]

Thanks for the info, Rick. vBulletin SW displays the status "Banned" for members where that is the case, but the SW this board uses seems not to have that function. Anyway, I was not aware of jerzy's involuntary absence, and was not intending to be rude by posting a response to which (s)he could not retort.

I try to be more clear and direct when I'm being rude, .

Hana has mentioned displaying "banned" next to the member's name. I think it's a good idea. It may help avoid members waiting for a response from someone no longer here.

I'll petition Queen Hana, and see if she can take some time away from ruling over her minions, to address this.

[PeteSinCA]

Thanks for the info, Rick. vBulletin SW displays the status "Banned" for members where that is the case, but the SW this board uses seems not to have that function. Anyway, I was not aware of jerzy's involuntary absence, and was not intending to be rude by posting a response to which (s)he could not retort.

I try to be more clear and direct when I'm being rude, .

Hana has mentioned displaying "banned" next to the member's name. I think it's a good idea. It may help avoid members waiting for a response from someone no longer here.

I'll petition Queen Hana, and see if she can take some time away from ruling over her minions, to address this.

It would be useful, generally, and especially for newbies, who tend at first to go a bit deeper into older threads and post their $0.04 (adjusted for inflation) on a topic that interests them. Not to discourage doing so, but to inform them that (as you said) some members are no longer able to respond.

[1over137]

Will work on it.

Time to have such feature.