Fact is that the pagan gods decided on Christian faith.

[krystyna]

Whether the Trinitarians want to acknowledge it or not it’s a historical fact that the pagan gods decided on Christian faith.

Knowledge of God’s nature is the autmost important issue in human salvation because the eternal life is subject to it. Jesus didn’t know anything about his divinity or that he was a part of a Trinity God? The apostles didn’t know it either. The prophets didn’t mention it and the word trinity doesn’t appear in the scriptures.

Why then the Trinitarians do not observe God’s commandment prohibiting additions or removal of a smallest sign from/to God’s word? Why they add unbiblical phrases like Trinity God, add texts like the three witnesses in 1Jn 5:7, translate texts out of context like Jn 20:28? Why they need to explain poorly translated verses like Jn 1:1-14 out of the Biblical context?

Is it not because they are making up stories to cover up the source of their “view” of God?

Thanks to vanquish29 opening post we have a glimpse of genesis of Trinity God in “There is no Trinity” here: http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... 17&p=0&e=0

Thanks to jerzy’s opening post we have a glimpse of how the pagan gods couldn’t decide on a singular or plural God in “How pagan rulers imposed the Trinity God.” Here: http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... =9&t=39204

Since the dual God was created in 325 (removed in 357) the Roman gods and Christians changed their minds many times. Finally the ruling pagan god of Rom decided in 380 that Rom will worship a Christian God. In 381 Christian part led by Athanasius under the “inspiration” of a pagan god re-instated the dual “God” and added a third “God”.

Now the Trinitarians had to make new translation of the scriptures to make provision for the new creation. They commissioned Jerome in 382 to re-translate the scriptures into Latin. Upon completion they outlawed the prior translations and made the Jerome’s Vulgate of 405 the only lawful translation.

Let’s see what the Trinitarians have to say about Jerome’s Vulgate:

The reason our Bibles translate logos as word is that Jerome, a monk of the early fifth century, mistranslated it as verbum. Jerome’s Vulgate, as it is called, became the official Bible of the Roman Catholic Church, and the texts Jerome used have become the mainstay of contemporary liberal versions. The Latin term Verbum became Word in English.

http://www.trinityfoundation.org/journal.php?id=255

You could see how skilfully they explain that Jerome’s mistranslation was not bad at all but the entire webpage seems removed. Perhaps they realised that they shot themselves in a foot.

Let’s see what others have to say about it:

The entire superstructure of the Vatican system is built on sinking sand . . . and not on the Rock of Ages....Every corrupt practice and doctrine can be traced back to the Latin Vulgate of Jerome.
In 382, Jerome was commissioned by Pope Damasus to revise the popular Latin translation of the Bible in use since at least 150 A.D.
Eventually, his perversion replaced the Old Latin Version.
It was called the Latin Vulgate and became the official version of the Vatican and the foundation of all their damnable heresies.
The Council of Trent condemns every other translation of the Bible except for the Latin Vulgate:
http://www.reformation.org/latin-vulgate-unmasked.html

Please notice in this link who orders things here: “Jerome worked from one of the 50 copies which Constantine ordered from Eusebius of Caesarea.”

As we can see, the NT supposed record of Jesus’ divinity and Trinity God is a mere fabrication supported by the Jerome’s “mistranslation”. Added and mal-translated verses are inferred back into the OT supposedly confirming the Trinitarian theology.

It has been an easy task because Christians rarely read the Bible to begin with, forget about studying it. They have no idea that their forefathers had to murder millions to be able to deliver this faith of today to them. Thus those who pretend to know it merely rely on story-tellers.

Let me give an example.

In “How pagan rulers imposed the Trinity God” posted here: http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... =9&t=39204 on Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:36 am we can see a typical (involuntary due to poor Biblical knowledge or voluntary creation of a smoke screen) Trinitarian meddling with the Bible.

B. W.

YHWH appeared to Moses , Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel… (Exo 24:9, 10, 11) They saw God…

He/she pretends or really doesn’t know what the prophets, Jesus and the apostle said about that. They said that no men can see/saw God at any time. Therefore they must have lied or didn’t know what B.W. happens to know.

To make it clear, B.W. doesn’t “know” that angels act on behalf of God yet these acts are credited to them and God exchangeably. He/she doesn’t mention verses like Ex 3:2=3:4, Ex 23:20-22 or the parts where God/angel led Israel from Egypt. He/she certainly doesn’t want to mention that Moses was a “God”. He/she doesn’t know how many times prophets spoke as if they were God.

Therefore, using his/her linguistic “expertise” & possessing “expert” knowledge of the Bible B.W. can easily prove that there are more than three Gods.

It has to be noted that such linguistic “expertise” and “expert” knowledge of the Bible is overwhelming amongst Trinitarians posting on public boards.

No wonder why they can “prove” Jesus’ divinity and Trinity God without much effort. All they need to do is to forget about many, many clear contrary verses and apply their expertise to make up whatever stories they wish.

No wonder why there are over 33 000 Christian denominations preaching different often completely contradicting stories.

[RickD]

Krystyna,

Before you continue posting, please answer what I asked you in the other thread.

Are you open to the idea that Jesus is God? Or have you already made up your mind that He isn't?

[neo-x]

Me thinks Krystyna is jerzy.

[krystyna]

RickD

Are you open to the idea that Jesus is God? Or have you already made up your mind that He isn't?

Let me explain in Jesus’ words:

Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.
Joh 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
Joh 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
Joh 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Joh 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
Joh 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
Joh 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

Joh 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Joh 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Joh 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
Joh 12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Joh 17:6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.


Do you understand what Jesus is saying or you need my "explanation"?

[RickD]

Krystyna,

You are banned for a week because you failed to directly answer my questions. If you decide to return after a week, please make sure you read the board purpose and discussion guidelines which you agreed to when you signed up here. Continually arguing against Christ's deity is grounds for permanent banning.

From the board purpose:

This board is not for those who have strongly made up their mind that Christ is "not" for them; who merely wish to put down, debate, and argue against essential Christian beliefs. As such, those who are Christian, have not made up their minds, or desire civilised discussions on Christianity are encouraged to join, while others who merely wish to attack and try to discredit Christianity are discouraged and will be heavily moderated.

Whether you acknowledge it or not, Christ's deity is a basic essential of the Christian faith.

[Seraph]

C'mon now, do we have to ban someone for not living up to an ultimatium set up, or for not agreeing with every point of the site? I think Krystyna is geniune in what she is arguing for, not just trying to be a troll.

If we're censoring further posts of people who oppose the idea of the Trinity or Christian doctrines, we're not really arguing the substance of the matter are we?

[B. W.]

....Let me explain in Jesus’ words:

Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.
Joh 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
Joh 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
Joh 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Joh 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
Joh 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
Joh 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

Joh 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Joh 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Joh 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
Joh 12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Joh 17:6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

Do you understand what Jesus is saying or you need my "explanation"?

Regarding your statement on John 10:34 the following sources below answer you and again proves your conclusions false

Jewish New Testament Commentary

Jewish New Testament Commentary writes concerning John 10:34-36the Following

Your Torah. See John 8:17, Mat 5:17. Here "Torah" means "Tanakh," since the passage quoted is from the Psalms, not the Pentateuch.
You people are Elohim, here Greek theoi ("gods"). But in the Hebrew text of Psalm 82 the word "elohim" may be translated "God," "gods," "judges" or "angels." Yeshua's rabbinic mode of Bible citation implies the context of the whole psalm (Mat2:6), which plays on these meanings:

"Elohim [God] stands in the congregation of El [God]:
He judges among the elohim [judges/angels/gods]:
'How long will you judge unjustly?...
I have said, "You are elohim [judges/angels/gods],
All of you are sons of the Most High."
Nevertheless you will die like a man
And fall like one of the princes.'
Arise, Elohim [God (the Judge)], and judge the earth,
For you will inherit all the nations."
(Psalms 82:1-2, Psalms 82:6-8)

The first and last "Elohim" mean "God," but the others should be rendered "judges," "gods" or "angels." To remind the reader to reach back through the Greek to the Hebrew wordplay I rendered theoi by its Hebrew equivalent.

Yeshua's wordplay implies a rabbinic-style kal v'chomer argument (Mat 6:30): if humans, who do evil works as they "judge unjustly" are elohim, how much more is Yeshua, who does good works (John 10:25, John 10:32-33, John 10:37-38) Elohim; and if "all of you are sons of the Most High," how much more does the description "Son of God" apply to Yeshua.

Robertson's Word Pictures:

Ye are gods (theoi este). Another direct quotation after eipa but without hoti. The judges of Israel abused their office and God is represented in Psalms 82:6 as calling them “gods” (theoi, elohim) because they were God’s representatives. See the same use of elohim in Exo 21:6; Exo 22:9, Exo 22:28. Jesus meets the rabbis on their own ground in a thoroughly Jewish way.

Keil & Delitzsch Commentary on the Old Testament

Regarding ... Psalms 82:5-7

What now follows in Psa 82:5 is not a parenthetical assertion of the inefficiency with which the divine correction rebounds from the judges and rulers. In connection with this way of taking Psa 82:5, the manner in which the divine language is continued in Psa 82:6 is harsh and unadjusted. God Himself speaks in Psa 82:5 of the judges, but reluctantly alienated from them; and confident of the futility of all attempts to make them better, He tells them their sentence in Psa82:6. The verbs in Psa82:5 are designedly without any object: complaint of the widest compass is made over their want of reason and understanding; and ידעו takes the perfect form in like manner to ἐγνώκασι, noverunt, cf. Psa 14:1; Isa 44:18. Thus, then, no result is to be expected from the divine admonition: they still go their ways in this state of mental darkness, and that, as the Hithpa. implies, stalking on in carnal security and self-complacency. The commands, however, which they transgress are the foundations (cf. Psa 11:3), as it were the shafts and pillars (Psa 75:4, cf. Proverbs 29:4), upon which rests the permanence of all earthly relationships with are appointed by creation and regulated by the Tôra. Their transgression makes the land, the earth, to totter physically and morally, and is the prelude of its overthrow. When the celestial Lord of the domain thinks upon this destruction which injustice and tyranny are bringing upon the earth, His wrath kindles, and He reminds the judges and rulers that it is His own free declaratory act which has clothed them with the god-like dignity which they bear. They are actually elohim, but not possessed of the right of self-government; there is a Most High (עֶלְיֹון) to whom they as sons are responsible. The idea that the appellation elohim, which they have given to themselves, is only sarcastically given back to them in Psa 82:1 (Ewald, Olshausen), is refuted by Psa 82:6, according to which they are really elohim by the grace of God. But if their practice is not an Amen to this name, then they shall be divested of the majesty which they have forfeited; they shall be divested of the prerogative of Israel, whose vocation and destiny they have belied. They shall die off כְּאָדָם, like common men not rising in any degree above the mass (cf. בְּנֵי אָדָם, opp. בְּנֵי אִישׁ, Psa 4:3; Psa 49:3); they shall fall like any one (Jdg 16:7, Oba 1:11) of the princes who in the course of history have been cast down by the judgment of God (Hosea 7:7). Their divine office will not protect them. For although justitia civilis is far from being the righteousness that avails before God, yet injustitia civilis is in His sight the vilest abomination.

krystyna, you do not seriously know Hebrew thought nor or why God assaigned the office of Judges in the Old Testament to rule as representatives with god like authority in legal and civil cases. You also do not grasp that in the verse you cite, Jesus is actually cutting the religious leaders down reminding them, they failed their duties and in doing so is asserting that He more than just a mere representative but rather that He is God - God alone who can save... He was asserting the principles found in these verses as Hosea mentions - only He (Jesus) can save from His own Judgment:

Isa 43:10 "You are My witnesses," says the LORD, "And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me.

Isa 44:6 "Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel, And his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: 'I am the First and I am the Last; Besides Me there is no God.

Isa 44:8 Do not fear, nor be afraid; Have I not told you from that time, and declared it? You are My witnesses. Is there a God besides Me? Indeed there is no other Rock; I know not one.' "

Isa 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is no other; There is no God besides Me. I will gird you, though you have not known Me,

Isa 45:14 Thus says the LORD: "The labor of Egypt and merchandise of Cush And of the Sabeans, men of stature, Shall come over to you, and they shall be yours; They shall walk behind you, They shall come over in chains; And they shall bow down to you. They will make supplication to you, saying, 'Surely God is in you, And there is no other; There is no other God.' "

Isa 45:18 For thus says the LORD, Who created the heavens, Who is God, Who formed the earth and made it, Who has established it, Who did not create it in vain, Who formed it to be inhabited: "I am the LORD, and there is no other.

Isa 45:20 "Assemble yourselves and come; Draw near together, You who have escaped from the nations. They have no knowledge, Who carry the wood of their carved image, And pray to a god that cannot save.

Isa 45:21 Tell and bring forth your case; Yes, let them take counsel together. Who has declared this from ancient time? Who has told it from that time? Have not I, the LORD? And there is no other God besides Me, A just God and a Savior; There is none besides Me.

Isa 45:22 "Look to Me, and be saved, All you ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.

Isa 46:9 Remember the former things of old, For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me,

Hosea 13:4 "Yet I am the LORD your God Ever since the land of Egypt, And you shall know no God but Me; For there is no savior besides Me.

Joel 2:27 Then you shall know that I am in the midst of Israel: I am the LORD your God And there is no other. My people shall never be put to shame.

All Verses are from the NKJV
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[PaulSacramento]

This again ??