Philip wrote:Are the paintings of Jesus' position on the cross inaccurate?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... ought.html
And I saw this interesting comment at the bottom of the article - I haven't yet checked into it (Bippy?):
"STUDY FROM ARIEL MINISTRIES
http://www.ariel.org ...... reasons why the Shroud of Turin cannot possibly be the shroud of the. Messiah."
Philip, the position of Jesus hands whether they were raised vertically or not isn't a big deal as most artistic renderings of that time also had Jesus pierced through the palm of his hands which was also wrong, but these things don't mean the crucifixion didn't happen.
But lets look closely at the scientist that is behind this article Matteo borinni. He started by saying the shroud is an incredible art work (proven wrong already and debunked) .
Now lets see who he turned to for advice and who actually participated in this research
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg2 ... z6Z_5K9KSP
The Shroud of Turin is a piece of linen cloth imprinted with the faint image of a naked man with what appear to be streams of blood running down his arms (seen in the bottom centre of the photo), and other wounds. Some believe it is the cloth in which Jesus's body was wrapped after crucifixion. But reliable records of it only begin in the 14th century, and carbon dating suggests the Shroud is a medieval forgery.
Either way, the Shroud is worth studying, says Matteo Borrini at Liverpool John Moores University in the UK. "If it's a fake, then it's a very interesting piece of art and human ingenuity," he says.
Borrini wanted to know if the "bloodstains" on the left arm, the clearest ones, were consistent with the flow of blood from the wrist of a crucified person. So he asked Luigi Garlaschelli of the University of Pavia, Italy, to assume different crucifixion postures, while a cannula attached to his wrist dribbled donated blood down his arm.
Philip, do you remember who Luigi Garlaschelli is
He was the atheist chemist hired by the atheist organization of Italy to try to replicate the shroud in 2009 and news media outlets claimed he was successful and a few months later that duplicate was debunked and then there was silence on it lol.
I know that Luigi is a member of the European version of the skeptic society and for some reason borinni rings a bell in my memory circuits as well as far as being a member of that society. But I would take anything that Luigi says or has participated in with a grain of salt.
I think I will ask Stephen Jones to look into this further.
As far as the scene link, when. I clicked on it it just took me to that ministry's home page. I don't see an article on the shroud Philip
Update: I googled around a bit and found the Ariel ministries article in the shroud and it turns out that they made the same elementary mistake start a few Christains make who are against the shroud being of Christ so lets take a look at what they said in the article.
http://www.arielaustralia.com/index.php ... load&id=11
John did not go in, but simply looked inside and saw that the linen cloths, which had been wrapped around Jesus, were lying in one part of the tomb, and the napkin, which had been wrapped around the face, was in another part of the tomb. The term linen cloths is plural which He was wrapped. The head-piece was totally separate from the strips of cloth, which had surrounded the body. This is one of several reasons why the Shroud of Turin cannot possibly be the shroud of the Messiah.
Again again this claim has been debunked by Gary habermas and by the fact that they have the head cloth in Spain which is the sudarium of Oveido .
This was dealt with early on in this thread.
It looks like Ariel ministries which is a messianic site should know the customs of ancient Jewish burials more then most leading me to believe that they an apriori belief that the shroud is a fake and they conveniently ignored the evidences that went against their belief of forgery . The problem with this kind of research is that somebody like Stephen Jones who does do his research thoroughly will spot the error and call them out on it.
There is a second objection which. Will deal with in my next post.
