Atheist response to big bang.

[WannaLearn]

Lots of arguments from ignorance here.

We don't know how te universe began or the so-called "first cause". Just because we don't know, though we have a wealth of information that gives us some ideas, that doesn't open the door to "goddidit".

As for earth being just right for us: For a start we EVOLVED to the conditions of the planet. And over 80% of the Earth's surface is hostile to humanity.

So, what was the first cause? God?

What caused God? God is eternal/timeless?

How do you know? How do you know the universe isn't timeless?


In order for your first cause argument to work, you need to make three assumptions:
1) God exists, despite being nonfalsifiable.
2) God has the ability to create universes.
3) God is timeless/eternal.

If I don't grant you those three assumptions, then you haven't proven God. Let me show you another way:

We'll assume there is a special particle called fleems. Fleems are undetectable, they can create universes, and they're eternal. Therefore, given that everything that exists has a cause and the universe exists, I have successfully proven fleems. Why don't you believe in fleems?

[1over137]

Did fleems raised up from the dead? Did they heal people?

[Byblos]

Did fleems raised up from the dead? Did they heal people?

If by fleems he means an eternal uncaused cause who's existence is of necessity and everything is contingent upon it then color me a fleems worshiper.

[neo-x]

Because, the bing bang is not evidence of Christian God, it is the evidence of an uncaused cause. We believe that cause to be Christian God. They don't.

We need to prove that our God is that cause, if we want the nonbeliever to accept this.

That being said, it is a futile effort to prove God through big bang. The first cause argument at best proves deism. You have to show how the god of the Bible is the one who fits the
Bill of the first cause.

I have never seen anyone impressed of Christianity because of a theory alone. People need more than that to believe in a living God. That is why the gospel is plain and simple because it strikes at the heart of the matter, which ias spiritual void, not necessarily an intellectual one.

[WannaLearn]

and another

Yup, things had to fall into place pretty perfectly for life to exist on Earth. It's a highly improbable phenomenon. You seem to think that it's so highly improbable that it couldn't have happened without outside intervention. Let's look at the math on that.

Think of it this way. Best estimates from scientists are that there are 70 sextillion (7 with 22 zeroes after it) stars in the universe. If you think about it, with that many different stars, the odds of at least one having a planet that's perfect for human life are actually pretty high. That's just a LOT of chances for blind luck to make things fall into place perfectly.

Think of it this way, if you played the lottery that many times, even if it was the lottery with the worst chances in the world, you should win trillions of times. The chances of you not winning at least once would be significantly lower than the chances of someone with only one lottery ticket winning the jackpot.

[Byblos]

and another

Yup, things had to fall into place pretty perfectly for life to exist on Earth. It's a highly improbable phenomenon. You seem to think that it's so highly improbable that it couldn't have happened without outside intervention. Let's look at the math on that.

Think of it this way. Best estimates from scientists are that there are 70 sextillion (7 with 22 zeroes after it) stars in the universe. If you think about it, with that many different stars, the odds of at least one having a planet that's perfect for human life are actually pretty high. That's just a LOT of chances for blind luck to make things fall into place perfectly.

Think of it this way, if you played the lottery that many times, even if it was the lottery with the worst chances in the world, you should win trillions of times. The chances of you not winning at least once would be significantly lower than the chances of someone with only one lottery ticket winning the jackpot.

And how exactly does life on other planets in our universe disprove the teleological argument? I would argue it strengthens it.

[Seraph]

In my view, the evidence for God doesn't lie in biology and the "unlikelyhood that life could evolve on a planet in the goldilocks zone", but rather in cosmology and the "unlikelyhood that a universe would exist that can support matter let alone allow life to exist".

I personally think that life does indeed exist on many other planets in other galaxies in the universe. I think they evolved naturally and God's hand is found in the universal laws that guide their evolution. Septillions of stars seems like an awful lot of stars and planets for a universe that is intended soley for life on Earth don't you think?

[Danieltwotwenty]

Septillions of stars seems like an awful lot of stars and planets for a universe that is intended soley for life on Earth don't you think?

From our perspective yes, from God's perspective it is merely a few grains of sand. I am not saying there isn't other life, just saying it is also logical if there isn't.

[WannaLearn]

about evolution and why is it not confirmed in your perspective.

Did you know that eyes have evolved at least 40 times independently?

Did you know that the fossil record confirms evolution?

Did you know that DNA confirms evolution?

[Byblos]

about evolution and why is it not confirmed in your perspective.

Did you know that eyes have evolved at least 40 times independently?

Did you know that the fossil record confirms evolution?

Did you know that DNA confirms evolution?

Seriously, what does this have anything to do with the big bang theory or cosmology?

[WannaLearn]

its not

[Byblos]

its not

Then what is your point (vis-a-vis the OP)?

[WannaLearn]

ok just forget that these are just questions I'm pick in up from an Atheist forum. Just how would you respond to the OP.

[Byblos]

ok just forget that these are just questions I'm pick in up from an Atheist forum. Just how would you respond to the OP.

Let's see ...

Lots of arguments from ignorance here.

We don't know how te universe began or the so-called "first cause". Just because we don't know, though we have a wealth of information that gives us some ideas, that doesn't open the door to "goddidit".

Argument from ignorance? Really? Since when do metaphysical arguments are made in ignorance? If that's the case then he is undermining the very scientific foundation he claims to stand on.

As for earth being just right for us: For a start we EVOLVED to the conditions of the planet. And over 80% of the Earth's surface is hostile to humanity.

Talk about arguments from ignorance. 80% of earth's surface may be hostile to humanity but it most certainly is NOT hostile to life.

So, what was the first cause? God?

Yes, and it can be shown with metaphysical certainty.

What caused God?

From metaphysical principles again, by definition, God is uncaused.

God is eternal/timeless?

How do you know?

By definition (metaphysical certainty), the first cause must be transcendent, i.e. eternal, timeless, changeless, enormously powerful, and a personal agent with the freedom of the will to create (or not).

How do you know the universe isn't timeless?

Because the universe (and that it entails including the laws of physics (quantum or otherwise), gravity, biology chemistry, mathematics, etc) is contingent. Anything that is contingent must depend on a necessary entity for its existence (again, from metaphysical principles).

In order for your first cause argument to work, you need to make three assumptions:

Says who? But let's see nontheless:

1) God exists, despite being nonfalsifiable.

Of course God is falsifiable. All your friend has to do is tear down the metaphysical principles from which God is ascertained.

2) God has the ability to create universes.

3) God is timeless/eternal.

Those are not assumptions, they are metaphysical facts.

If I don't grant you those three assumptions, then you haven't proven God.

False.

Let me show you another way:

We'll assume there is a special particle called fleems. Fleems are undetectable, they can create universes, and they're eternal. Therefore, given that everything that exists has a cause and the universe exists, I have successfully proven fleems. Why don't you believe in fleems?

See my previous post on fleems.

[WannaLearn]

Thanks this is very helpful.