What’s the worst that could happen?

Kenny · Post by **Kenny** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:15 am

1over137 wrote:So, Kenny, you want to dictate God what he should do?

Naawww! I was just askin you guys.

Ken

neo-x · Post by **neo-x** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:22 am

Kenny you put too much faith in people. I had a conversation with some very nice atheist folks, some were friends. They concluded that even if god showed himself clearly tbey still wouldn't be interested because why should they follow God, so what that he created them, ita not like they asked him to, so they owe him nothing.

On the other side, I believe this is exactly why god hides himself, if he showed himself, the free will of man would still rebel against him. And that's not what god wants tbat he be followed or accepted because his creation has no other option. That is simply dictatorship. God loves us and wants to be followed with love and understanding. Showing himself rids man of a his benefit of doubt and if he sees god, he has to obey him since man would not have any excuse to deny the obvious.

Can you see my point?

Kenny · Post by **Kenny** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 1:09 pm

neo-x wrote:Kenny you put too much faith in people. I had a conversation with some very nice atheist folks, some were friends. They concluded that even if god showed himself clearly tbey still wouldn't be interested because why should they follow God, so what that he created them, ita not like they asked him to, so they owe him nothing.

Wow! Those are some awful brave atheists. If God showed his existence to me, and he turned out to be anything like most Christians I know discribe him to be, I would immediately bow down and worship him or do whatever it is he wants me to do if for no other reason than for fear of what he will do to those who don't. Call me a coward if you wish but I don't like torture by fire.

neo-x wrote:On the other side, I believe this is exactly why god hides himself, if he showed himself, the free will of man would still rebel against him. And that's not what god wants tbat he be followed or accepted because his creation has no other option. That is simply dictatorship. God loves us and wants to be followed with love and understanding. Showing himself rids man of a his benefit of doubt and if he sees god, he has to obey him since man would not have any excuse to deny the obvious.

Can you see my point?

Proof of his existence by itself will not force anyone to do something they don't wanna do. If they feel forced to worship him, it is because of something other than the proof provided.

Ken

Mallz · Post by **Mallz** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:10 pm

From a FB conversation. I see this train of thought a lot.

Andrew Daviau: I don't believe that someone being gay is evil if god won't let me go to heaven for that then the hell with him. Honestly if someone could prove to me that the bible was written word for word by god (I don't see how you could believe that we know it wasn't) it still wouldn;t change my mind, if god exists and he really thinks that then he is wrong to do so. Howver the bibel was written by men soo.........
April 15 at 8:24pm · Like · 1

Andrew Daviau: Further more for all thses religuos nut jobs to try so hard to not let gay people get married is sad. If you need to justify what you believe in soo bad that you feel the need to force your beliefs on how other people live then you need to take a good hard look at yourself.

People will only follow their god, and not THE God. They don't want to be told what to do. I see pride everywhere. Mix that in with how no one cares to understand what they're talking about before forming an opinion.. and we get the ignorant existentialist, a very common mindset today. And almost impossible to talk to.

Kenny · Post by **Kenny** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:34 pm

Mallz wrote: People will only follow their god, and not THE God. They don't want to be told what to do. I see pride everywhere. Mix that in with how no one cares to understand what they're talking about before forming an opinion.. and we get the ignorant existentialist, a very common mindset today. And almost impossible to talk to.

I suspect the reason people have that attitude is because the bible was written by men claiming to speak for God. When what these men wrote goes against their lifestyle, it is easy to claim these are mans words; not God's words. I bet most christians will agree; that half the time someone claims to be speaking for God, they are actually speaking for themselves. Now if an audible voice came from the sky..... Things would be different; don't cha think?

Ken

Post by **1over137** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:41 pm

Matthew 3:17
and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased."

Kenny · Post by **Kenny** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:12 pm

1over137 wrote:Matthew 3:17
and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased."

Exactly! He did it then, now if he would only do it now, it would be recorded and I will bet nearly the entire world would convert!

Ken

Post by **1over137** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:17 pm

Kenny wrote:
1over137 wrote:Matthew 3:17
and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased."
Exactly! He did it then, now if he would only do it now, it would be recorded and I will bet nearly the entire world would convert!

Ken

I would bet that no.

Kenny · Post by **Kenny** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:54 pm

1over137 wrote:
Kenny wrote:
1over137 wrote:Matthew 3:17
and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased."
Exactly! He did it then, now if he would only do it now, it would be recorded and I will bet nearly the entire world would convert!

Ken
I would bet that no.

Why do you say no?

Ken

Post by **1over137** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:22 pm

We live in a world full of lies, conspiracy theories, etc.
The recording, people would say, was done by fanatical Christians, or whatever. People would try to explain it out somehow.

Kenny · Post by **Kenny** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:43 pm

1over137 wrote:We live in a world full of lies, conspiracy theories, etc.
The recording, people would say, was done by fanatical Christians, or whatever. People would try to explain it out somehow.

Do you really believe that? With as many christians in this country looking for a reason to say God did it? Look at how many people converted because someone thought they saw an image of the Virgin mary on a potato! You think a voice from the sky confirmed by today's technology would be dismissed???

Ken

Post by **1over137** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 1:44 am

Kenny wrote:
1over137 wrote:We live in a world full of lies, conspiracy theories, etc.
The recording, people would say, was done by fanatical Christians, or whatever. People would try to explain it out somehow.
Do you really believe that? With as many christians in this country looking for a reason to say God did it? Look at how many people converted because someone thought they saw an image of the Virgin mary on a potato! You think a voice from the sky confirmed by today's technology would be dismissed???

Ken

So, how many converted because someone thought they saw the image?

Another question: why people dismiss miracles, like miraculous healings?

Kenny · Post by **Kenny** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:33 am

1over137 wrote: Another question: why people dismiss miracles, like miraculous healings?

I suspect they don't believe they are being truthful. A lot of people have lied about miracle healings. However if an amptue were to grow a limb back, that would be difficult to fake. According to my understanding there has never been a documented case of an amptue being healed.

K

Post by **1over137** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:54 am

Kenny wrote:
1over137 wrote: Another question: why people dismiss miracles, like miraculous healings?
I suspect they don't believe they are being truthful. A lot of people have lied about miracle healings. However if an amptue were to grow a limb back, that would be difficult to fake. According to my understanding there has never been a documented case of an amptue being healed.

K

B.W. Could tell you there was case with finger. I do not know whether documented though.

Kenny · Post by **Kenny** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:25 am

1over137 wrote:
Kenny wrote:
1over137 wrote: Another question: why people dismiss miracles, like miraculous healings?
I suspect they don't believe they are being truthful. A lot of people have lied about miracle healings. However if an amptue were to grow a limb back, that would be difficult to fake. According to my understanding there has never been a documented case of an amptue being healed.

K
B.W. Could tell you there was case with finger. I do not know whether documented though.

Probably wasn't documented. There is a skeptic named James Randi who has had a $1,000,000.00 challenge for anyone who could preform a miracle, or anything outside the laws of nature under observed conditions. He has had this challenge for over 30 years and thus far nobody has sucessfully challenged him. If miracles happened on a regular basis I don't think he would have this challenge because someone would have taken his money by now.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Randi

Ken

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