WannaLearn wrote:Why would you want to worship something you completely understand? I don't even understand myself.
Why would you worship, or even follow something you don't understand?
Ken
Because a true God would be incomprehensibly more complex than it's creation. If we could understand God completely then it would not be God but rather some lesser being. How can a being who is constrained by time, space and his intellect understand a being that is not bound by time, space or intelligence.
If you don't understand something, how do you know it's the truth?
Ken
I don't understand all the ins and outs of the laws of thermodynamics but I hold it to be true, same can be said of many many things.
how do you know it to be true if you don't understand it? I can understand claiming what you know of it to be true, but how can you account for that which you don't understand?
Ken
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
So they didn't have a comlete understanding of it either?
Ken
We have a complete understanding of there being one God but being three seperate persons working in perfect relationship, how this works is a divine mystery that all Christians affirm through the Nicean creed.
So yes the Catholics call it a divine mystery as far as I am aware because they are Christian brothers and sisters.
Thanks for your perspective
Ken
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
RickD wrote:I know my wife exists as a person. And I definitely don't understand her.
Who said anything about existing?
Ken
It's not the existing I was focusing on. It's the personhood. It was a joke, but my point was that I can understand God in three persons, or the Trinity, without completely understanding God. Just like I can understand my wife is a person, and can't understand her.
John 5:24 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
Kenny wrote:
how do you know it to be true if you don't understand it? I can understand claiming what you know of it to be true, but how can you account for that which you don't understand?
Ken
Easily, I can see their effect in nature same with God, I can see the effects of the Father, the Son and the Spirit. I may not understand all the maths behind the laws but I can hold them to be true because I see their effect. Also I can appeal to an authority like a phyisict, in the same way I can appeal to the Bible as an authority on the subject of God's nature.
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.
If we could describe and understand God completely, He wouldn't be God.
The Trinity is simply a doctrine of Nature, God's nature.
If Christ is the begotten son of God then He is God by nature.
If the HS is the spirit of God then He is God by nature.
Because they are in perfect union, true perfection that is.
God is an "other-centered" being, which means His love is not self-centered but centered on others ( HS and SON) and if He was only "a one person God" then His love would be "self-centered" and thus inferiour to a being that is "other-centered" and thus, He would NOT be God.
Jac's recent post on the trinity gave me a little clarity on the matter:
There is absolutely NO way to distinguish between the Persons of the Godhead (since they are precisely the same substance) except by their relations to one another. That means that if the Son proceeds from the Father, and the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father (but not the Son), then there would be no way to distinguish between the Spirit and Son. Both would proceed from the Father, but then in what way could we say that the Spirit is not the Son? So what the Church has said is that the Son comes from the Father and that the Spirt comes from the Son AND the Father.
Kenny wrote:The universe is neither true or false.
Is it real - is it there?
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The Universe is defined as "all that exists" So if there is anything can be discribed as existing; it would be the Universe
Ken
No it isn't! The universe is not defined as "all that exists". Just a simple google search of "the universe definition" shows you're wrong.
John 5:24 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
Go to your Wikipedia definition, and after existence you'll see [1][2][3][4].
Now click on each of those numbers to see each definition. Is there anything that possibly exists that's not part of the universe? You'll have to actually think objectively to answer this one honestly. I know you can do it.
John 5:24 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
