What’s the worst that could happen?

General discussions about Christianity including salvation, heaven and hell, Christian history and so on.
Kenny
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Re: What’s the worst that could happen?

Post by Kenny »

Danieltwotwenty wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Danieltwotwenty wrote:Sorry I'm not following your question, perhaps reword it as it's a little confusing. What would I be lying about?
You claimed if the Christian God spoke from the sky to clear up all the misunderstandings people have of him, other christians would try to hide the fact that their God is the voice coming from the sky by suggesting it is a mass haluciation; or something other than the truth.
My question is, if you (a christian) wouldn't be willing to lie to hide the truth (truth being the God of the bible is the voice coming from the sky) why wouldn't you assume the same for everyone else who is christian?

Ken
I never said I would lie, I said faith is a personal thing and I wouldn't force my beliefs on others. If I heard God's voice from the sky and everyone in the world heard it, why would I need to tell them about it, they have already heard it for themselves. However if someone asked me about it I would be happy to discuss it with them.
That isn't what I asked. I asked would you purposely lie and tell everybody the voice from the sky was not God but just a trick of some sort. I asked that because that was what you suggested most others would do. If you would not do that, why would you assume most others would?

Ken
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Re: What’s the worst that could happen?

Post by Danieltwotwenty »

Kenny wrote:
Danieltwotwenty wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Danieltwotwenty wrote:Sorry I'm not following your question, perhaps reword it as it's a little confusing. What would I be lying about?
You claimed if the Christian God spoke from the sky to clear up all the misunderstandings people have of him, other christians would try to hide the fact that their God is the voice coming from the sky by suggesting it is a mass haluciation; or something other than the truth.
My question is, if you (a christian) wouldn't be willing to lie to hide the truth (truth being the God of the bible is the voice coming from the sky) why wouldn't you assume the same for everyone else who is christian?

Ken
I never said I would lie, I said faith is a personal thing and I wouldn't force my beliefs on others. If I heard God's voice from the sky and everyone in the world heard it, why would I need to tell them about it, they have already heard it for themselves. However if someone asked me about it I would be happy to discuss it with them.
That isn't what I asked. I asked would you purposely lie and tell everybody the voice from the sky was not God but just a trick of some sort. I asked that because that was what you suggested most others would do. If you would not do that, why would you assume most others would?

Ken
I was talking about atheists (thought that was obvious) who don't believe in the supernatural, hence they would try to find a naturalistic explanation for the event like RFID implants or some other such conspiracy, mass delusion, aliens etc.. etc..
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.
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Re: What’s the worst that could happen?

Post by Proinsias »

What's the worst that could happen?
As far as I understand the worst thing possible for those who are not commited to the Christian idea of God is when the God of the Christians appears in the sky we go to hell. To me that was a general theme, if you're only going to recognise God when he's shouting at you from a cloud then you're in trouble.
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Re: What’s the worst that could happen?

Post by Kenny »

Danieltwotwenty wrote: I was talking about atheists (thought that was obvious) who don't believe in the supernatural, hence they would try to find a naturalistic explanation for the event like RFID implants or some other such conspiracy, mass delusion, aliens etc.. etc..
If all that happened, I believe most Atheists would convert and no longer be atheist. The few that refuse would have about as much credibility as today’s holocaust deniers and would look just as foolish.
Do you agree?

Ken
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
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Re: What’s the worst that could happen?

Post by Danieltwotwenty »

Kenny wrote:
Danieltwotwenty wrote: I was talking about atheists (thought that was obvious) who don't believe in the supernatural, hence they would try to find a naturalistic explanation for the event like RFID implants or some other such conspiracy, mass delusion, aliens etc.. etc..
If all that happened, I believe most Atheists would convert and no longer be atheist. The few that refuse would have about as much credibility as today’s holocaust deniers and would look just as foolish.
Do you agree?

Ken
No I don't agree, my years of experience in the world says otherwise. There have been plenty of examples throughout history of people finding naturalistic or conspiracy explanations to try to explain something that continues to defy their worldview. I don't see how this situation would be any different, humans are just way too predictable, after all are they not just dancing to their DNA. ;)
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.
Kenny
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Re: What’s the worst that could happen?

Post by Kenny »

Danieltwotwenty wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Danieltwotwenty wrote: I was talking about atheists (thought that was obvious) who don't believe in the supernatural, hence they would try to find a naturalistic explanation for the event like RFID implants or some other such conspiracy, mass delusion, aliens etc.. etc..
If all that happened, I believe most Atheists would convert and no longer be atheist. The few that refuse would have about as much credibility as today’s holocaust deniers and would look just as foolish.
Do you agree?

Ken
No I don't agree, my years of experience in the world says otherwise. There have been plenty of examples throughout history of people finding naturalistic or conspiracy explanations to try to explain something that continues to defy their worldview. I don't see how this situation would be any different, humans are just way too predictable, after all are they not just dancing to their DNA. ;)
I believe it would be different because everybody on Earth would have the same experience; but that's just me. If you believe most would deny it; that's your opinion and I will respect that. Thanks for giving me your perspective.

Ken
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"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
Danieltwotwenty
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Re: What’s the worst that could happen?

Post by Danieltwotwenty »

Kenny wrote:
Danieltwotwenty wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Danieltwotwenty wrote: I was talking about atheists (thought that was obvious) who don't believe in the supernatural, hence they would try to find a naturalistic explanation for the event like RFID implants or some other such conspiracy, mass delusion, aliens etc.. etc..
If all that happened, I believe most Atheists would convert and no longer be atheist. The few that refuse would have about as much credibility as today’s holocaust deniers and would look just as foolish.
Do you agree?

Ken
No I don't agree, my years of experience in the world says otherwise. There have been plenty of examples throughout history of people finding naturalistic or conspiracy explanations to try to explain something that continues to defy their worldview. I don't see how this situation would be any different, humans are just way too predictable, after all are they not just dancing to their DNA. ;)
I believe it would be different because everybody on Earth would have the same experience; but that's just me. If you believe most would deny it; that's your opinion and I will respect that. Thanks for giving me your perspective.

Ken
No worries mate, were all entitled to our opinions. Imagine if we were all the same, it would be a pretty boring world, maybe a world where we all blindly accept the voice from the sky as God. :pound:
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.
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Re: What’s the worst that could happen?

Post by B. W. »

Kenny wrote:
B. W. wrote:
Kenny wrote:
B.W. wrote:Where did these stars, planets, etc, you empirically see get where they are?
I don’t pretend to know all the right answers, but I can sometimes recognize a wrong answer.

Ken
Therefore, would a wrong answer be based upon a presupposition?

Tell us where and how did the universe come into being?-
Wrong answers can be based upon all sorts of things; presuppositions included. As far as how and where the Universe came into being; I guess it came into being as we know it during the big bang, Where? What do you mean by where?

Ken
Where did the big bang come from?
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-
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Re: What’s the worst that could happen?

Post by RickD »

Danieltwotwenty wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Danieltwotwenty wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Danieltwotwenty wrote: I was talking about atheists (thought that was obvious) who don't believe in the supernatural, hence they would try to find a naturalistic explanation for the event like RFID implants or some other such conspiracy, mass delusion, aliens etc.. etc..
If all that happened, I believe most Atheists would convert and no longer be atheist. The few that refuse would have about as much credibility as today’s holocaust deniers and would look just as foolish.
Do you agree?

Ken
No I don't agree, my years of experience in the world says otherwise. There have been plenty of examples throughout history of people finding naturalistic or conspiracy explanations to try to explain something that continues to defy their worldview. I don't see how this situation would be any different, humans are just way too predictable, after all are they not just dancing to their DNA. ;)
I believe it would be different because everybody on Earth would have the same experience; but that's just me. If you believe most would deny it; that's your opinion and I will respect that. Thanks for giving me your perspective.

Ken
No worries mate, were all entitled to our opinions. Imagine if we were all the same, it would be a pretty boring world, maybe a world where we all blindly accept the voice from the sky as God. :pound:
Well played... :lol:
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Kenny
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Re: What’s the worst that could happen?

Post by Kenny »

B. W. wrote:
Kenny wrote:
B. W. wrote:
Kenny wrote:
B.W. wrote:Where did these stars, planets, etc, you empirically see get where they are?
I don’t pretend to know all the right answers, but I can sometimes recognize a wrong answer.

Ken
Therefore, would a wrong answer be based upon a presupposition?

Tell us where and how did the universe come into being?-
Wrong answers can be based upon all sorts of things; presuppositions included. As far as how and where the Universe came into being; I guess it came into being as we know it during the big bang, Where? What do you mean by where?

Ken
Where did the big bang come from?
-
-
-
What caused the big bang? I don't know; all I have are a bunch of guess.

Ken
RickD wrote
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SeekingSanctuary
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Re: What’s the worst that could happen?

Post by SeekingSanctuary »

You guys ever see a thread and just sort of follow it because it seems interesting but you don't bother posting because you don't feel like adding anything? And then you just stop reading it for a day or two, maybe longer because, well, life? Then you get back and holy crap what went wrong?

We went from a hypothetical situation to a discussion on Obama's race, someone claiming that Christians run the world, talking about how the universe began which 99% sure there's already a thread for that somewhere. I don't know, things went a bit nuts.

Okay, let's get back on topic:
What’s the worst that could happen if God were to address the entire world at once, in a language that each of us could understand; and cleared up all the misunderstandings we have of him? Why doesn’t he do this?

Ken
Well, let's start with this: human experience is subjective. We all accommodate what we see to fit the paradigm we have. For example:

Five friends are out late one night and see a bright light. The first guy believes in ghosts, so he sees a ghost. The second friend believes in God and Angels, so she sees an angel. Another an alien, another a time travel, a cryptid, maybe someone decides they can't explain since no explanation fits into their world-view. Whatever. So, you have the exact same event leading to different experience depending on the beliefs the person comes in with. Simple enough so far, yes?

I know that isn't as specific as your example but keep what I said in mind. I'm getting to it.

Now one morning we all wake up, go about our business then a booming voice came from heaven. "Hi, I'm God. I'm a woman. You seriously aren't supposed to eat pork, you will burn in Hell if you do. That is all."

Now imagine it hitting the fan. First, how many people wouldn't believe in God as a woman? How many would accept the pork rule? A lot would be against it. Muslim fundies would decide it was an evil plot by demons or the west, a lot of Christians would assume it was demons or something else, conspiracy theorists would claim it was proof governments had invented the tech to fake God showing up before the NWO. Pick a group, they'll come to their own conclusions.

Still not the worst yet. Follow it through. Muslim fundies decide to fully attack the west all once with everything they have to stop these efforts, any government that thinks another government somehow caused it will go to war and attack fast and hard. In the states some would start murdering for other reasons (conspiracy theories preventing the NWO, Christians blaming something for it, e.t.c)

Oh, also new issues would pop up. Is Bacon pork? Some say yes others no, new misunderstandings would pop up immediately.

Why doesn't He do it? The above, maybe? No clue. I'm not going to try and put myself in the shoes of an omnipotent, omniscient, immortal being with a mind infinitely superior to mine. Seems like an exercise in futility to me.
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Re: What’s the worst that could happen?

Post by Kenny »

SeekingSanctuary wrote:You guys ever see a thread and just sort of follow it because it seems interesting but you don't bother posting because you don't feel like adding anything? And then you just stop reading it for a day or two, maybe longer because, well, life? Then you get back and holy crap what went wrong?

We went from a hypothetical situation to a discussion on Obama's race, someone claiming that Christians run the world, talking about how the universe began which 99% sure there's already a thread for that somewhere. I don't know, things went a bit nuts.

Okay, let's get back on topic:
What’s the worst that could happen if God were to address the entire world at once, in a language that each of us could understand; and cleared up all the misunderstandings we have of him? Why doesn’t he do this?

Ken
Well, let's start with this: human experience is subjective. We all accommodate what we see to fit the paradigm we have. For example:

Five friends are out late one night and see a bright light. The first guy believes in ghosts, so he sees a ghost. The second friend believes in God and Angels, so she sees an angel. Another an alien, another a time travel, a cryptid, maybe someone decides they can't explain since no explanation fits into their world-view. Whatever. So, you have the exact same event leading to different experience depending on the beliefs the person comes in with. Simple enough so far, yes?

I know that isn't as specific as your example but keep what I said in mind. I'm getting to it.

Now one morning we all wake up, go about our business then a booming voice came from heaven. "Hi, I'm God. I'm a woman. You seriously aren't supposed to eat pork, you will burn in Hell if you do. That is all."

Now imagine it hitting the fan. First, how many people wouldn't believe in God as a woman? How many would accept the pork rule? A lot would be against it. Muslim fundies would decide it was an evil plot by demons or the west, a lot of Christians would assume it was demons or something else, conspiracy theorists would claim it was proof governments had invented the tech to fake God showing up before the NWO. Pick a group, they'll come to their own conclusions.

Still not the worst yet. Follow it through. Muslim fundies decide to fully attack the west all once with everything they have to stop these efforts, any government that thinks another government somehow caused it will go to war and attack fast and hard. In the states some would start murdering for other reasons (conspiracy theories preventing the NWO, Christians blaming something for it, e.t.c)

Oh, also new issues would pop up. Is Bacon pork? Some say yes others no, new misunderstandings would pop up immediately.

Why doesn't He do it? The above, maybe? No clue. I'm not going to try and put myself in the shoes of an omnipotent, omniscient, immortal being with a mind infinitely superior to mine. Seems like an exercise in futility to me.
Wow! That's a lot on it! Maybe I have too much faith in mankind, but I suspect before a country accuses and starts attacking another country for orchrestrating such an event, they would probably use their war machines (fighter Jets) to see if another country did this or is it something mankind has never seen before. Once it is determined to be something they never seen before, they would probably listen to the voice. But as I said; maybe I have too much faith in mankind; I beleive people are generally good and try to do the right thing.

Ken
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"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
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SeekingSanctuary
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Re: What’s the worst that could happen?

Post by SeekingSanctuary »

I agree that humans are good and generally try to do good, admittedly far from always. The problem isn't in that, so much as it is capacity for good. They don't know everything, and what little information they have is biased from their own beliefs and experiences. You can have the best intentions in the world and acting in the most selfless ways, but if you're acting without proper understanding you will probably just screw things up. Then there are the times they don't have the best of intentions, and I didn't even bother thinking about that.

I'm not sure why you keep acting like you expect a happier answer. Maybe you should have called this thread, "What's the best that could happen?" :lol:
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Re: What’s the worst that could happen?

Post by Kenny »

SeekingSanctuary wrote:I agree that humans are good and generally try to do good, admittedly far from always. The problem isn't in that, so much as it is capacity for good. They don't know everything, and what little information they have is biased from their own beliefs and experiences. You can have the best intentions in the world and acting in the most selfless ways, but if you're acting without proper understanding you will probably just screw things up. Then there are the times they don't have the best of intentions, and I didn't even bother thinking about that.

I'm not sure why you keep acting like you expect a happier answer. Maybe you should have called this thread, "What's the best that could happen?" :lol:
I wasn't really looking for a happier answer, I was just curious how those who really belive in this God wold answer the question. I did provide quite a few follow up questions because I found the dicussion interesting.

Ken
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Danieltwotwenty
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Re: What’s the worst that could happen?

Post by Danieltwotwenty »

Glad we could be of asstistance. You seem genuine, which I am glad to see.
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.
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