Reason to believe

[oldman]

Hopefully.

Whatever happens, all will see all on the day of judgement

...do you also see this as a work of evil?

Only the pure and faithful Spirit that is faithful to love us unto death revealed by the Lord Jesus when He ministered and died on earth, will have no reason to deceive and offend any of us, (by“offend” I mean offend so that we be harmed and offended eternally) such is the Spirit that is revealed by His true followers. This Jesus could not have lied because in His Spirit there can be seen no reason to lie. Recorded history tells us the faithful followers who witnessed the ministry and finished work of Jesus were in the end prepared to be persecuted to death, even tortured to death rather than live a lie and deny who they believed in or what they had witnessed: His commandments and doctrine, the love and wisdom, the miracles, the promises, the crucifixion and the resurrected Jesus Christ. Despite all the efforts of hypocrites, malicious liars and antichrists, this Spirit lives on in all His true followers still.

Whoever blasphemes against this Spirit will never be saved for there is nothing left to save them.

From the Father and the Son comes their perfect and eternal love for each other. Their love is their endless joy in their pure and perfect caring, sharing and giving to each other all that they are and all that they care to create. The Son came from the Father in eternity before creation began and He naturally looks up to His Father, but without the Father's only eternal child there would be no possibility for an eternal God known as "love", "God is love", as Scripture clearly proclaims, and this love cannot exist with one person alone. This love, this God called love, needs at least two free thinking reasoning minds, and through the eternal Son the Father became the eternal giver of joy in perfect caring and sharing, and through the eternal Father His Son became the eternal receiver and giver of this same Spirit. Without the eternal Son there would be no such Spirit of pure and perfect eternal love; and it is this eternal Spirit that comes through the Father and the Son, and with the Father and the Son, all creation is governed. This Spirit naturally embraces all knowledge and wisdom and would mean nothing without being the heart or the innermost ruling character of a person.

The Father's Spirit is being given now to each of His chosen and gives new life by transforming our corrupt and deceitful spirits of pride and death back into one of humility and holiness, just as Adam and Eve were before the Spirit of truth in them was confounded and corrupted into something evil by their desire to know evil. The Father's Spirit will live in all His chosen ones and ultimately make their unique personalities perfect in knowledge, wisdom and love forever.

The finished work of Jesus Christ reveals in full His Spirit faithful to love unto death. This Spirit is the heart of God's personality. This Spirit is what governs His reasoning. Only the Spirit that has proved faithful to love us unto death can be trusted not to deceive and "offend" anyone. Only when we are governed by this Spirit shall we be trusted to serve God and creation forever.

By reason, this Spirit is the only proven conveyor of truth, simply because there is no reasonable alternative in which we all can trust.

Whoever has contempt for this Spirit will never be saved for there is nothing left to save them.

[RickD]

oldman wrote:
The Father's Spirit is being given now to each of His chosen and gives new life by transforming our corrupt and deceitful spirits of pride and death back into one of humility and holiness, just as Adam and Eve were before the Spirit of truth in them was confounded and corrupted into something evil by their desire to know evil. The Father's Spirit will live in all His chosen ones and ultimately make their unique personalities perfect in knowledge, wisdom and love forever.

Oldman,

Let's assume your ideas and the spirit you preach are of God. Please show from scripture where it says:
1) The Father's Spirit is being given now to each of His chosen.

2) where the Holy Spirit of God is corrupted as you asserted

Convince me from scripture of your beliefs

[oldman]

oldman wrote:
The Father's Spirit is being given now to each of His chosen and gives new life by transforming our corrupt and deceitful spirits of pride and death back into one of humility and holiness, just as Adam and Eve were before the Spirit of truth in them was confounded and corrupted into something evil by their desire to know evil. The Father's Spirit will live in all His chosen ones and ultimately make their unique personalities perfect in knowledge, wisdom and love forever.

Oldman,

Let's assume your ideas and the spirit you preach are of God. Please show from scripture where it says:
1) The Father's Spirit is being given now to each of His chosen.

2) where the Holy Spirit of God is corrupted as you asserted

Convince me from scripture of your beliefs

post deleted by moderator
Oldman,

Prove your beliefs from scripture. If you post your false gospel again, I will delete it again
You're getting close to being banned. This is not your own personal false gospel blog

Last chance. Prove from scripture what I asked, or you will be banned. Post anything before you post what I asked, and it will be deleted.

[B. W.]

oldman wrote:
The Father's Spirit is being given now to each of His chosen and gives new life by transforming our corrupt and deceitful spirits of pride and death back into one of humility and holiness, just as Adam and Eve were before the Spirit of truth in them was confounded and corrupted into something evil by their desire to know evil. The Father's Spirit will live in all His chosen ones and ultimately make their unique personalities perfect in knowledge, wisdom and love forever.

Oldman,

Let's assume your ideas and the spirit you preach are of God. Please show from scripture where it says:
1) The Father's Spirit is being given now to each of His chosen.

2) where the Holy Spirit of God is corrupted as you asserted

Convince me from scripture of your beliefs

post deleted by moderator
Oldman,

Prove your beliefs from scripture. If you post your false gospel again, I will delete it again
You're getting close to being banned. This is not your own personal false gospel blog

Last chance. Prove from scripture what I asked, or you will be banned. Post anything before you post what I asked, and it will be deleted.

I did not edit your comments Oldman, another moderator has.

Again, you have shown yourself capable of explaining your view of who jesus is as: "In the beginning the eternal Son existed only in the eternal thoughts of the Father as a spiritual embryo" very clearly.

All we are asking is for you to define what you mean by the spirit of truth. If such truth is in you, it should not be hide or veiled behind idle and suggestive threats towards me or others posting here on this thread. You should explain clearly what you mean as you did in explaining jesus as you so stated: only existing in the eternal thoughts of the Father as a spiritual embryo

By not sharing what you mean, there isn't anyone that can make sense of what you mean and you are coming across as incoherent. So for the third time, please explain what you mean by spirit of truth so folks actually can understand what you mean.
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[oldman]

I have explained all I can of what I see of the Father's Spirit and my understanding of Him is still seen by the Moderators and others here as a work of evil. Clearly then it is time for me to leave.

May God bless all who use this forum.

[B. W.]

I have explained all I can of what I see of the Father's Spirit and my understanding of Him is still seen by the Moderators and others here as a work of evil. Clearly then it is time for me to leave.

May God bless all who use this forum.

The bible makes it clear that the person of the Holy Spirit testifies about Jesus as it is written:

"But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me." John 15:26

As you can see, the Holy Spirit is a He, the Third person from the Divine Triune nature of God as it is written:

"However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come." John 16:13

Since John 15:26 is true, and since the jesus you testify about is as you said: "In the beginning the eternal Son existed only in the eternal thoughts of the Father as a spiritual embryo," does not line up with what the bible actually testifies about Jesus. John 17:5 Jesus makes it very plain that he was never a spiritual embryonic thought in the Father (also note John 17:24).

Please note these verses as well too - John 1:1-14, John 3:13, Philippians 2:6, Heb 1:3,10 also the preincarnate Jesus speaks within the Old Testament too, therefore, the spirit of truth you testify of is not the Holy Spirit but some sort of familiar seducing spirit which is deceiving you. It used cannabis to solidify its deception upon and in you.

Please reconsider your position and come to the real Jesus Christ and be filled with the real Holy Spirit who testifies of Jesus Christ and so much more. It is easy to do ask for forgiveness and repentance from the heart. You can simply ask:

Dear Heavenly Father, please forgive me of my ways, make me born again in Jesus name, Help me to turn away from deception and the error of my life. In Jesus name... Amen...
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[oldman]

It is time for me to leave but not without reminding you B.W. that you keep ignoring the questions I asked and the request I made.

http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... 90#p154557

In so doing you deny me the chance to see and know who and what you really value above all others.

[B. W.]

It is time for me to leave but not without reminding you B.W. that you keep ignoring the questions I asked and the request I made.

http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... 90#p154557

In so doing you deny me the chance to see and know who and what you really value above all others.

We have answered your questions... please read the post above yours...

It s ironic that you said this:

Only the pure and faithful Spirit that is faithful to love us unto death revealed by the Lord Jesus when He ministered and died on earth, will have no reason to deceive and offend any of us, (by“offend” I mean offend so that we be harmed and offended eternally)

...and then turn around and insinuate that if anyone points out your error, they have committed the Blaspheme of the Holy Spirit. How can that be true in light of what you stated about the spirit having - "no reason to deceive and offend any of us, (by“offend” I mean offend so that we be harmed and offended eternally)"

That, then, is poses a logical contradiction, doesn't it?

I suggest you look this link up on what the blasphemy Holy Spirit is from Christian Apologetic's Research Ministries

Go in peace...
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[oldman]

It is time for me to leave but not without reminding you B.W. that you keep ignoring the questions I asked and the request I made.

http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... 90#p154557

In so doing you deny me the chance to see and know who and what you really value above all others.

We have answered your questions... please read the post above yours...

I am sorry B.W., I have read that post several times now, but I honestly still cannot see where you have given me clear, direct and adequate answers to the questions I asked or to the request I made.

You wrote, "the Holy Spirit testifies about Jesus as it is written: "But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me." John 15:26"

But that doesn't really help us if we do not have a right understanding of Jesus to begin with, as many variations of Christianity clearly do not have.
Please then, let me try and explain once more what I see and ask concerning the essence and character of the Spirit of truth.

The finished work of Jesus Christ reveals in full His Spirit faithful to love unto death. It is the Father's nature to always love and when His Son became incarnate in mortal man to destroy the power of evil, His Spirit was revealed like never before: God proved faithful to love vile sinful man unto death.


Don't misunderstand me, I am well aware that now evil is as much a part of freewill as what good is there has to be such a thing as justified violence otherwise evil would have destroyed good a long time ago, but even so: Only the Spirit that has proved faithful to love us unto death (as in the finished work of Jesus Christ) can have no reason to deceive and offend any of us (by “offend” I mean offend as when one is deliberately harmed to be offended eternally). Only when this self-sacrificing Spirit of pure love lives and grows in us and we become transformed and governed entirely by this Spirit shall we also be trusted not to deceive and offend anyone.

By reason, this Spirit is the only proven conveyor of truth, simply because there is no reasonable alternative in which we all can trust.


Do you then still believe my understanding of the essence and character of the Spirit of truth is a work of evil? If so then please tell me in your own words, what is the essence and character of the one you call “the Spirit of truth” living and growing in you, working in you to govern your thoughts and actions forever?

Is the one living in you making you perfect like the Son of God is perfect, faithful to love unto death?

[RickD]

oldman wrote:
The finished work of Jesus Christ reveals in full His Spirit faithful to love unto death. It is the Father's nature to always love and when His Son became incarnate in mortal man to destroy the power of evil, His Spirit was revealed like never before: God proved faithful to love vile sinful man unto death.

So, your jesus is an embryo, and now your jesus is a vile sinful man? Your jesus is not the biblical Jesus.

Hebrews 4:15
15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin.

As I've been saying all along, you're preaching a different Jesus, and a different spirit.

[oldman]

oldman wrote:
The finished work of Jesus Christ reveals in full His Spirit faithful to love unto death. It is the Father's nature to always love and when His Son became incarnate in mortal man to destroy the power of evil, His Spirit was revealed like never before: God proved faithful to love vile sinful man unto death.

So, your jesus is an embryo,

...was an embryo,

“In the beginning was the Word” (In the beginning the eternal Son existed only in the eternal thoughts of the Father as a spiritual embryo.) “and the Word was with God, and the Word was God” (This Word, this embryo became a facsimile of the Father, not a creation as such but another part of the Father. This 2nd mind became another person like the Father, the Father's Son before creation began.) “He was with God in the beginning. All things were made through Him,” (through the Father and the Son's pure and perfect love for each other they began creating everything whilst giving that love to all who they created.) “without him nothing was made that has been made.” John 1:1-3.

To deny the Son came from His Father by the will of His Father in eternity before creation began, is to deny the true meaning of the words “Father” and “Son” that were used by God to describe the 1st and 2nd person in the Godhead.

By denying the Son came from His Father before creation began is to deny the bond of perfect love that only a perfect Father and Son can give to each other.

It is the unique Father and Son relationship that gave us the Spirit of truth.

The 1st and 2nd person of the Godhead were not revealed to us as “Father” and “Son” for nothing as many false teachers would have us believe.

and now your jesus is a vile sinful man?

When the Father's Son became incarnate in mortal man He remained perfect throughout His life on earth and now sits at the right hand of God ready to judge the living and the dead.

Your jesus is not the biblical Jesus.

[Byblos]

oldman wrote:
The finished work of Jesus Christ reveals in full His Spirit faithful to love unto death. It is the Father's nature to always love and when His Son became incarnate in mortal man to destroy the power of evil, His Spirit was revealed like never before: God proved faithful to love vile sinful man unto death.

So, your jesus is an embryo,

...was an embryo,

“In the beginning was the Word” (In the beginning the eternal Son existed only in the eternal thoughts of the Father as a spiritual embryo.) “and the Word was with God, and the Word was God” (This Word, this embryo became a facsimile of the Father, not a creation as such but another part of the Father. This 2nd mind became another person like the Father, the Father's Son before creation began.) “He was with God in the beginning. All things were made through Him,” (through the Father and the Son's pure and perfect love for each other they began creating everything whilst giving that love to all who they created.) “without him nothing was made that has been made.” John 1:1-3.

To deny the Son came from His Father by the will of His Father in eternity before creation began, is to deny the true meaning of the words “Father” and “Son” that were used by God to describe the 1st and 2nd person in the Godhead.

By denying the Son came from His Father before creation began is to deny the bond of perfect love that only a perfect Father and Son can give to each other.

It is the unique Father and Son relationship that gave us the Spirit of truth.

The 1st and 2nd person of the Godhead were not revealed to us as “Father” and “Son” for nothing as many false teachers would have us believe.

and now your jesus is a vile sinful man?

When the Father's Son became incarnate in mortal man He remained perfect throughout His life on earth and now sits at the right hand of God ready to judge the living and the dead.

Your jesus is not the biblical Jesus.

Seriously? The same drivel over and over again ad nauseum.

[B. W.]

It is time for me to leave but not without reminding you B.W. that you keep ignoring the questions I asked and the request I made.

http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... 90#p154557

In so doing you deny me the chance to see and know who and what you really value above all others.

We have answered your questions... please read the post above yours...

I am sorry B.W., I have read that post several times now, but I honestly still cannot see where you have given me clear, direct and adequate answers to the questions I asked or to the request I made.

You wrote, "the Holy Spirit testifies about Jesus as it is written: "But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me." John 15:26"

But that doesn't really help us if we do not have a right understanding of Jesus to begin with, as many variations of Christianity clearly do not have.
Please then, let me try and explain once more what I see and ask concerning the essence and character of the Spirit of truth.

The finished work of Jesus Christ reveals in full His Spirit faithful to love unto death. It is the Father's nature to always love and when His Son became incarnate in mortal man to destroy the power of evil, His Spirit was revealed like never before: God proved faithful to love vile sinful man unto death.


Don't misunderstand me, I am well aware that now evil is as much a part of freewill as what good is there has to be such a thing as justified violence otherwise evil would have destroyed good a long time ago, but even so: Only the Spirit that has proved faithful to love us unto death (as in the finished work of Jesus Christ) can have no reason to deceive and offend any of us (by “offend” I mean offend as when one is deliberately harmed to be offended eternally). Only when this self-sacrificing Spirit of pure love lives and grows in us and we become transformed and governed entirely by this Spirit shall we also be trusted not to deceive and offend anyone.

By reason, this Spirit is the only proven conveyor of truth, simply because there is no reasonable alternative in which we all can trust.


Do you then still believe my understanding of the essence and character of the Spirit of truth is a work of evil? If so then please tell me in your own words, what is the essence and character of the one you call “the Spirit of truth” living and growing in you, working in you to govern your thoughts and actions forever?

Is the one living in you making you perfect like the Son of God is perfect, faithful to love unto death?

I have as well as others have explained things to you very clearly. One of the reason's you fail to grasp what we have been trying to tell you is that you present another entirely different jesus not found in the bible. The Holy Spirit testifies of the real Jesus found within the bible. For example, you stated that Jesus was the 2nd mind, well God is not double minded. Then you mention that Jesus was an embryo in the Father's thoughts and this would make him created. The bible does not teach this about Jesus and the Holy Spirit verifies this from the bible too.

You appear to be having trouble with Greek work monogenḗs translated begotten in John 3:16. Monogenḗs refers to unique - one and only - per the context of John Chapter 3. It refers to God manifest in human flesh - coming as - Messiah - God himself who can be the only true Messiah capable to set free human beings from sin's slavery and death's hold just as the bible teaches. Jesus is that one and only one who was never created and never existed in embryo but always was as it is written: John 17:5, Rev 1:8, Rev 1:17,18, Rev 2:8, Rev 21:6, Rev 22:13; Isa 41:4, Isa 43:10, Isa 44:6, Isa 48:12.

The reason you do not understand what we have been saying is that you are listening to something else that is not the spirit of truth...

As you look at Isa 41:4, Isa 43:10, Isa 44:6, Isa 48:12 you have the preincarnate Christ speak and for him to be speaking thus and his word be true proves he never was some sort of embryo in the mind of the Father and neither as second mind either.
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[oldman]

The reason you do not understand what we have been saying is that you are listening to something else that is not the spirit of truth...

The reason I do not understand you is because you will not answer me clearly and directly.
I cannot understand anyone who will not answer clearly and directly.

[RickD]

The reason you do not understand what we have been saying is that you are listening to something else that is not the spirit of truth...

The reason I do not understand you is because you will not answer me clearly and directly.
I cannot understand anyone who will not answer clearly and directly.

Oldman,

Let me be as clear and direct as I can. You are preaching a different christ, and a different spirit. We will not allow you to continue preaching this false Christ and false Holy Spirit here.