Kenny wrote:What caused the big bang? I don't know; all I have are a bunch of guess.
Ken
Then please enlighten us on your guesses and from each guess where did the substances come from that cause it?-
My guess is that the Universe has always existed. Many substances that make up the Universe have always existed thus are first causes, other substances may have been created when some of the first causes combined with each other. I would guess there was never a point in history when absolute nothing existed. The singular that expanded in what we call the "Big Bang" was the Universe as well We just didn't know what the Universe was like prior to the Big Bang, and scientists currently have no way of finding out.
Ken
If these substances always existed - then why not a creator be the substance that created?
Maybe it is just a matter that you cannot yet read the intelligence behind the design....
Því svo elskaði Guð heiminn, að hann gaf son sinn eingetinn, til þess að hver sem á hann trúir glatist ekki, heldur hafi eilíft líf.
Good point! My problem with an intelligent creator as the first cause (among many) is that he remains hidden, and he does a lot of stuff that doesn't make sense to me. If a creator did create everything I believe he would have constant contact with his creation; to remain hidden for the vast majority does not make sense to me so it makes more sense to me that the first cause is not an intelligent being.
Ken
He is not hidden - you see the universe or not?
Are you listening? or is pride, like wax, stopping your ears from hearing...
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Science is man's invention - creation is God's
(by B. W. Melvin)
Old Polish Proverb:
Not my Circus....not my monkeys
Kenny wrote:
If the foundation that Jesus stands on is the God of the Old Testament, I cannot follow Jesus while rejecting his foundation; even though I may agree with what Jesus says. To me that would be akin to voting for a politician who is an active member of the Ku Klux Klan simply because I agree with what he says on various political issues
Ken
So, you're not going to read the book. You could have just said so.
Oh my bad! I thought you knew me better than that. Okay! Here goes......uh um..... I am not going to read the book!
Ken
And there you have it folks.
He is offered a book that takes the time to deal with the difficulties of the OT. One that is excellent in its scholarship and ability to examine the subject matter that is Kenny admits is the source of his struggle. Heck, one of our members graciously offers to give him a copy. he refuses. Any of you who continue to engage Kenny are only bringing scorn on yourselves. It's also obvious he ignored the links I provided regarding the hiddenness of God. He demands that god comply with what he thinks god ought to be, and then can't understand that this is the epitome of obtuse. He's failed even the most fundamental purpose of this discussion forum.
Kenny, best of luck to you. Prayers for you. But, as long as you retain that stubborn disposition, I am shaking the dust off of my feet regarding anymore dialogue with you. Good day.
-“The Bible treated allegorically becomes putty in the hands of the exegete.” John Walvoord
"I'm not saying scientists don't overstate their results. They do. And it's understandable, too...If you spend years working toward a certain goal and make no progress, of course you are going to spin your results in a positive light." Ivellious
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is what we call check and mate.
Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue
And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.
-“The Bible treated allegorically becomes putty in the hands of the exegete.” John Walvoord
"I'm not saying scientists don't overstate their results. They do. And it's understandable, too...If you spend years working toward a certain goal and make no progress, of course you are going to spin your results in a positive light." Ivellious
Kenny wrote:What’s the worst that could happen if God were to address the entire world at once, in a language that each of us could understand; and cleared up all the misunderstandings we have of him? Why doesn’t he do this?
Ken
The worst that could happen would be Kenny saying to God, "I disagree with you. I know you say you're God, but I have plenty of evidence that you don't exist."
This my friends is the hammer meeting the nail.
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.
Kenny wrote:At the end of page 8 the discussion was basically over as a matter of fact you even provided the final response to the original question on 3/3/14 10:21pm with “ Glad we could be of assistance. You seem genuine, which I am glad to see.
Yes I said you seem genuine, but you have proven yourself not to be in other threads.
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.
Kenny wrote:At the end of page 8 the discussion was basically over as a matter of fact you even provided the final response to the original question on 3/3/14 10:21pm with “ Glad we could be of assistance. You seem genuine, which I am glad to see.
Yes I said you seem genuine, but you have proven yourself not to be in other threads.
Daniel is a little slow on the uptake. He's been swilling too much Foster's Lager. It's Australian for beer.
John 5:24 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
Kenny wrote:At the end of page 8 the discussion was basically over as a matter of fact you even provided the final response to the original question on 3/3/14 10:21pm with “ Glad we could be of assistance. You seem genuine, which I am glad to see.
Yes I said you seem genuine, but you have proven yourself not to be in other threads.
Daniel is a little slow on the uptake. He's been swilling too much Foster's Lager. It's Australian for beer.
Fosters is the worst Australian beer known to man yet it is still better than the horse **** that comes from the states.
If you want good Australian beer try Coopers, Fat Yak, Little Creatures, James Squires etc.... not the mainstream ones (bleuh)
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.
You Australians are spoiled! You get the good beer, kangaroo burgers, Holden autos, and Olivia Newton-John. She was my first crush.
John 5:24 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
1over137 wrote:Hmm, probably the worst that could happen is nothing. I mean, unbelievers would continue their lives as nothing happened.
If the worst that could happen is a few unbelievers still in denial,I say he should give it a go! Especially when you consider all the good could come of it; ya think?
K
Last edited by Kenny on Sun May 11, 2014 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
Kenny wrote:What’s the worst that could happen if God were to address the entire world at once, in a language that each of us could understand; and cleared up all the misunderstandings we have of him? Why doesn’t he do this?
Ken
The worst that could happen would be Kenny saying to God, "I disagree with you. I know you say you're God, but I have plenty of evidence that you don't exist."
Ha! ha! C'mon funnyman! I ain't that bad! (LOL)
K
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
Kenny wrote:
If the foundation that Jesus stands on is the God of the Old Testament, I cannot follow Jesus while rejecting his foundation; even though I may agree with what Jesus says. To me that would be akin to voting for a politician who is an active member of the Ku Klux Klan simply because I agree with what he says on various political issues
Ken
So, you're not going to read the book. You could have just said so.
Oh my bad! I thought you knew me better than that. Okay! Here goes......uh um..... I am not going to read the book!
Ken
And there you have it folks.
He is offered a book that takes the time to deal with the difficulties of the OT. One that is excellent in its scholarship and ability to examine the subject matter that is Kenny admits is the source of his struggle. Heck, one of our members graciously offers to give him a copy. he refuses. Any of you who continue to engage Kenny are only bringing scorn on yourselves. It's also obvious he ignored the links I provided regarding the hiddenness of God. He demands that god comply with what he thinks god ought to be, and then can't understand that this is the epitome of obtuse. He's failed even the most fundamental purpose of this discussion forum.
Kenny, best of luck to you. Prayers for you. But, as long as you retain that stubborn disposition, I am shaking the dust off of my feet regarding anymore dialogue with you. Good day.
Why are you so bent on me reading this book? Does it address the subject at hand? Does this book have anything to do with what will happen if God addressed the entire world? No! Admit it! This is another attempt to hijack this topic and discuss something that has nothing to do with the subject at hand, and you are getting sore at me because I am refusing to play along. If you want to discuss something else, start another topic. If you want to talk about the Old Testament wars, which books to read, or play convert the Atheist or whatever; start another thread and we can discuss that stuff. Let’s try to keep things on topic. Fair enough?
Ken
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
Kenny wrote:At the end of page 8 the discussion was basically over as a matter of fact you even provided the final response to the original question on 3/3/14 10:21pm with “ Glad we could be of assistance. You seem genuine, which I am glad to see.
Yes I said you seem genuine, but you have proven yourself not to be in other threads.
Really? Of all the points I made, and the 1 specific question I asked for a response from you, the only thing you commented on was the non issue of you saying I seemed genuine. All that other stuff I mentioned just went right over your head huh? And you call ME obtuse??? Hum.... Didn't your Jesus say something about noticing the spinter in your neighbors eye, when you should be removing the beam in your own eye? Ya might wanna think about that for a while.
Ken
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
