Christianism and Oriental Medicine / Science

d00d · Post by **d00d** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 5:37 pm

Hi there!

I am currently seeking answers to a lot of my doubts, including religous one. I read the Bible from time to time (some parts only, not the integral text), and (obviously) I found no reference to the oriental science and medicine that explains stuff through meridians, chi, and the flow of energy through the body. As far as I read, there is no contradiction between practices like Chi Kung or Tai Chi that emphatizes on meditation, flow of energy and physical training as well, and religion in general and the Bible and Christianism in particular.

To sum it up, I want to know what do you have to say about the practice of something that teaches that energy flows in the human body? I mean, there are clearly some practices that are evil; is this the oriental teachings case? Or, as a friend of mine says, it sticks to each one's interpretation...

Sorry if i was a bit confusing, and thanks in advance!

Believer · Post by **Believer** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 5:48 pm

Hello d00d! May I suggest you introduce yourself HERE? While I cannot directly answer your question posed, someone will get back to you on it. We are here to help doubters to stop doubting

!

AttentionKMartShoppers · Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:56 pm

Those oriental beliefs are the outgrowth of pantheistic beliefs.

d00d · Post by **d00d** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:21 pm

I have introduced myself in the chit-chat forum.

AttentionKMartShoppers wrote:Those oriental beliefs are the outgrowth of pantheistic beliefs.

when you say that they are the outgrowth of pantheistic beliefs, what do you mean? is it bad? is it good?

from my minor research about oriental beliefs, here is what i found in a Q&A to a Chi Kung | QiGongmaster:

Question 12: I pray that you would share your conviction on the Shaolin spiritual teachings with me, and if possible guide me. Otto, country not mentioned
Answer 12: First we need to be quite clear of what is meant by spiritual development. It concerns the development of the spirit, which is sometimes called the mind or the soul by different peoples, although other peoples may make a distinction among the three. Thus, accumulating religious knowledge may or may not be spiritual development.
In the Shaolin teaching, the aim of spiritual development may be classified into three main levels: 1. Leading a morally upright life in this world. 2. Enjoying eternal bliss in heaven in the next life. 3. Realizing the ultimate truth, called variously by different peoples like enlightenment, unity with the great void, or return to God's kingdom.

so as far as I can tell some oriental beliefs are more like a moral system than a religion itself, many say that for instance budism is not a religion by itself but more of a philosophy.

I have found also in another forums some interesting stuff, for instance in here:
http://www.cyberkwoon.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=77121

So I want to know if this question has a "straight from the Bible" answer, or it is more personal, depends on one's interpretation.

Kurieuo · Post by **Kurieuo** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 6:25 pm

Welcome d00d.

I believe you'll find many Christians who attribute the "energies" as in some way having spiritual influences. And I consider this a reasonable Christian perspective considering 'chi' is meant to be a circulating life energy inherent in all things. I believe this is what AKMS was alluding to in saying it is an outgrowth of pantheistic beliefs, and such oriental beliefs are clearly contrary to Christian ones.

Now if such practices do have ungodly spiritual influences as I'm inclined to believe they do, then we are told to keep away from such things. I believe this is because we can be deceived and mislead if open to it, given false hope, and most of all as Isaiah points out, shouldn't we be looking to God rather than such practices? (Isaiah 8:19-22)

Kurieuo.

Prodigal Son · Post by **Prodigal Son** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 6:50 pm

energy does flow through the human body. energy is everywhere. how does this create tension with christian beliefs? is that what your asking? can you list the oriental energy theories/beliefs that are contrary to christian beliefs so we can better understand what you are confused on?

AttentionKMartShoppers · Tue Aug 23, 2005 10:14 pm

Prodigal Son wrote:energy does flow through the human body. energy is everywhere. how does this create tension with christian beliefs? is that what your asking? can you list the oriental energy theories/beliefs that are contrary to christian beliefs so we can better understand what you are confused on?

It's a psychic/supernatural energy-and since it's from a pantheistic worldview, I'm guessing this energy is the god force (as in pantheism, god is everything...LITERALLY). Which then leads to problems in cosmology for a pantheist. So, d00d, what you'd be channeling is, at the best, nothing, and you'll receive some psychological benefit (tricking yourself in a sense)...or you're channeling evil spirits-because it's not from God-and there's only one other source.

d00d · Post by **d00d** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 6:50 am

As far as I can tell, Chinese culture believes that energy flows through everything, and energy is in the air; they developed a model of the human body consisting of energy points and flows, just as like western medicine developed a model of the human body consisting of body organs and vessels and stuff. Although China is officially atheist, in my point of view, that doesn't deny the possibility of sharing some common beliefs and practices. That doesn't also deny the chance to share some ideas with hinduism, wich is polytheistic.

I have debated this with other friends of mine (who are also Christian) and the discussion always becomes more personal and less objective. It seems that a (christian) church that my friend goes to, opened a center of eastern medicine like acupuncture I think. I have found also in other forums (i posted the link earlier) that there are practicioners of some type of energy discipline of other religions, including Christians.

It seems to me that the explanation of those energy practices is more directed to the human body and "natural" causes, and less likely to be exlpained by divine reasons (including pantheism). Just like in the Inquisition era, if you made something different (lets say you were inventing gunpowder), you were practicing witchcraft and nowdays we explain that scientifically, I am trying to see if there is a more 'natural' explanation to those energy practices and manifestations.

As you may notice when I introduced myself, I am not really a Christian or anything, as I am still searching for the 'global picture'. I just want to see if there is a way to answer in harmony all my doubts...

Sorry for the long post

AttentionKMartShoppers · Wed Aug 24, 2005 1:24 pm

Hinduism isn't polytheistic-the last I read, but pantheistic, Hindus don't believe those deities in the stories really exist or existed-they're just stories to explain things. Assuming my source was good...

Prodigal Son · Post by **Prodigal Son** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 4:53 pm

i don't see anything psychic, supernatural, or pantheistic about energy in the body. energy is energy, focus on it if you want. you're probably better off researching online for recent, "natural" explanations for it all.

AttentionKMartShoppers · Wed Aug 24, 2005 6:01 pm

Prodigal Son wrote:i don't see anything psychic, supernatural, or pantheistic about energy in the body. energy is energy, focus on it if you want. you're probably better off researching online for recent, "natural" explanations for it all.

Ah, you're not understanding the energy we're talking about. We're not talking about heat/chemical/kinetic or any other kind of energy, we're talking about some supernatural energy force silly.

Prodigal Son · Post by **Prodigal Son** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 6:12 pm

oh, i thought he just wanted to know how we (as christians) interpreted it--did we think it evil or just natural? oh well.

d00d · Post by **d00d** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 7:32 pm

Prodigal Son wrote: oh, i thought he just wanted to know how we (as christians) interpreted it--did we think it evil or just natural? oh well.

yes that's what i wanted to know. if you interpret it as natural, evil, with or without some biblical support or just you intepret it personally.

the energy practices normally covers some topics:
- drawing energy (the so called chi or qi in chinese culture) contained in the air / cosmos / nature / etc.
- meditating / taking your mind to the next level / calming your mind
- repetition / interpretation of some forms with your body (envolving movements normally in slow motion)
- others

these practices normally don't require you to belief in a God or gods, they just require to practice and feel.

normally the manifestations of some experienced practitioner are in demonstrations of healing techniques, or breaking stuff (wood, marble, etc) with light touches through transmission of chi (generated through exercises) and other stuff.

I'm sorry if im prolonguing this thread but i still cant understand what is your (Christian) position in regard to this topic

Prodigal Son · Post by **Prodigal Son** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 7:45 pm

oh, so i was correct? as a christian, i don't think there's anything eerie or supernatural or evil about it. but, that's just me. there are lots of different christian opinions.

TimM1104 · Post by **TimM1104** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 6:21 pm

I kinda feel im too young to post on a serious topic as itself, but truthfully I do not believe thier is anything wrong with it, i dont know if it works or not, but whether or not it works since it has nothing to do with a false god, it seems more like a Science than a religion, a science never proven true of false, but a science...