The first cause thing

[FlawedIntellect]

So, Wannalearn, I think the next logical question for you is, "How are you defining universe?"
Edit: FI beat me to posting. Oh well

Uh, SeekingSanctuary, I think your response was intended for GenericAtheist and not WannaLearn, since your quotes were from GenericAtheist's post. :3

[SeekingSanctuary]

Yeah, but we covered most of the same info. Your post could do the same thing mine does for the most part.

[Kenny]

• What caused God?
• If God has no cause, why does he get a causal exemption?
• If we've established things can exist without a cause, than how can we argue cause is necessary for existence?
• If God is eternal, why not create the universe sooner or later? Doesn't that involve an infinite amount of waiting before the creation of the universe?
• If we say infinities cannot exist, does that mean God is not infinitely powerful?
• Where did all the "stuff" that makes up the universe come from?
• How do you make the leap from "first cause" to Christian God is the cause?

God is not of this universe, therefore not required to its laws.

If the Universe is defined as "all that exists"; if God exists, then by definition God is a part of the Universe.

Ken

The definition of "the universe" is "all existing matter and space considered as a whole; the cosmos." according to the Oxford American Dictionaries app that my computer has. As God is immaterial and 'spaceless', well, he is not a part of the universe.

The reason it is defined that way is because that is all that is believed to exist! According to them your God doesn't exist! So for you to say something is nonmaterial, and exist in the spiritual world, the imaginary world, or some other type of world that science doesn't recognize the existence of, doesn't answer anything. You are basically creating an "escape clause" for your explanation and insisting nobody else can use it.

Ken

[Kurieuo]

• What caused God?
• If God has no cause, why does he get a causal exemption?
• If we've established things can exist without a cause, than how can we argue cause is necessary for existence?
• If God is eternal, why not create the universe sooner or later? Doesn't that involve an infinite amount of waiting before the creation of the universe?
• If we say infinities cannot exist, does that mean God is not infinitely powerful?
• Where did all the "stuff" that makes up the universe come from?
• How do you make the leap from "first cause" to Christian God is the cause?

A more foundational and neutral question I'd like to leave you with is: Which has always existed? "Unintelligence" or "Intelligence"?

There are strong arguments to support intelligence existing first. I know of none that support unintelligent matter.

To escape a continual regression of "cause and effect" something must have always existed that caused everything else. This something would have been eternally changeless as it is the beginning of everything. If it were to change, then it too would be bound by cause and effect and therefore not the eternal beginning.

It seems to me that "intelligence" is the only thing that can be eternally changeless and yet have the ability to will a change from within itself. If unintelligent matter is the eternal cause, then matter is unable to will a change since unintelligent matter has no will -- ice would forever remain ice, water forever water. Nothing else would come from this.

[RickD]

Kurieuo,

It's good to see you back! Where have you been hiding? Have you been holed up with Danieltwotwenty, drinking Foster's Lager?

You came back just in time to speak to Kenny. I'm sure you'll enjoy his stimulating conversation.