How God Creates

[Starhunter]

If people knew a little more about how God creates, they would have a different platform to stand on, rather than the broken ground of so called science. But because believers have tried to argue in a territory outside of faith, they have lost their ability to produce anything substantial to glorify God.
Many go along with the idea that it takes a lot of energy to make creation.
Which is true, but false, because God already possesses all power that is and could be, and more - as you know.
So for a creation to exist, it involves a sublimation or reduction, or a change in the status of power, rather than a build up, or explosion (for the Big Bangers). The Bible goes into detail how this happens, which can be talked about later.

If you think very carefully you will understand that it is impossible for anything to co exist with God, unless God makes an allowance for it - for God is a consuming fire'. "Let there be..." is a term of allowing. Once a couple of key principles as outlined in the Bible are accepted, many mysteries are made plain.

We find that the universe contains far more energy, than is revealed in matter. For example, the stars have far less energy than what they reside in. Scientists have different names for this extra energy, like dark matter etc. But in a simple way it proves that the matter and what we experience in creation is derived and sustained from a background of greater forces, and that matter is a result of settling power down, the opposite of exploding things like in the BBT.

The Bible states many times that "man is brutish in his knowledge"- he thinks like a thug, and that God makes things "by wisdom" and not force.

How different is this model of tranquility compared to a universe that is violent and competitive?

[neo-x]

faith and ignorance do not go hand in hand.

[Mazzy]

Matter has been made from pure light, IOW instantly. Therefore physics supports the possibility of instant creation.

The American air force laboratory is very interested in teleportation. That is about dematerializing matter and sending it to another destination. Therefore physicists agree, in theory at least, that matter, or rather an object, is no more than matter arranged in a certain way. Whether or not scientists will one day be able to teleport matter along with its activating life force, is also yet to be seen.

So now we have physics demonstating matter can be created instantly from a large power source and that a form is such matter materialized into a certain pattern. Given that science is in a fledgling state, this is huge support for a biblical creation being based on physics.

Most scientists now reject the RNA world first, in favour of 'proteins first'. Of course even the scientists that propose such a theory acknowledge that there are huge problems with this theory. As has been observed proteins do not exist without a host. IOW the host, life, must come first.

Even though science is not qualified to speak to the metaphysical, I believe 'how' God created is based on a science/physics that may one day be better understood. At present a creative event appears to be more solidly rooted in the sciences than the possibility of abiogenesis.

[Silvertusk]

Hi Mazzy.

Welcome to the board. If you have a moment - introduce yourself here

http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... hp?f=2&t=5

Enjoy your stay.

Silvertusk.

[Starhunter]

It is interesting that matter can be assembled and disassembled, showing how temporal it is, and dependent on something 'unchaotic' to hold it together.

Colossians 1:17 indicates that matter has order and integrity by Christ.

The description in Genesis of light being spoken into existence before any matter appearing on the third day, introduces natural light on the fourth day with the sun etc. From this it is safe to say that the light produced by the Word of God is supernatural, which is able to produce matter - including the properties of natural light.
The fact that this natural light can be used to manipulate matter, as Mazzy tells, demonstrates to us what God has done on a large scale.

It was understood in ancient times that the Light of the Word, is the power behind matter, and they were able to manipulate matter to behave abnormally, such as cutting and transporting stones weighing hundreds of tonnes without a noise. This technology was perfected in the days of Solomon who used it to build the temple's foundations. Several other nations have done similar work, between 2300 BC and 800 AD.

Modern teleporting experiments are complicated and involve too much energy to be practical on a larger scale, but the ancients employed simpler methods. Their wisdom came from understanding that matter can be changed as easily through a deprivation of energy, as a bombardment of energy, such as attempted with modern tech.

It may be important to know this, because the world is ignorant and vulnerable to manipulation by ancient and foreign technology, which incidentally was discovered by European scientists in the 1860's. From time to time, there are appearances of paranormal activities which are so bizarre and unexplained that they are generally dismissed.

Even Christians which should be aware of the Biblical view of how nature operates, cannot tell the difference between
man-made technology - ancient or modern, hoaxes and the work of the occult.

[Ivellious]

and they were able to manipulate matter to behave abnormally, such as cutting and transporting stones weighing hundreds of tonnes without a noise. This technology was perfected in the days of Solomon who used it to build the temple's foundations.

We know how ancient civilizations transported massive stones despite the lack of modern technology. It had nothing to do with long-lost technology or "manipulating matter to behave abnormally." They used their rudimentary understanding of mechanics and what we call physics. Their was no magic to it, just smart people who learned how to accomplish seemingly difficult tasks by observing the world around them and putting their observations to the test.

Several other nations have done similar work, between 2300 BC and 800 AD.

So where did this magic technology go after 800 AD, and why is there no record of it being used or how it was used? If there was widespread knowledge and application of incredible world-shattering technology being used for thousands of years, don't you think someone might have thought to describe it and write about it at some point?

Modern teleporting experiments are complicated and involve too much energy to be practical on a larger scale, but the ancients employed simpler methods.

Teleporting experiments? While the thought of Star Trek-style teleportation is cool in theory, anything remotely close to that is simply absurd to think about. Quantum mechanics, if we ever found a way to completely control it on a grand scale, could potentially lead to technologies with similar applications on a small scale, but that is probably thinking way too far ahead right now, even optimistically.

It may be important to know this, because the world is ignorant and vulnerable to manipulation by ancient and foreign technology, which incidentally was discovered by European scientists in the 1860's. From time to time, there are appearances of paranormal activities which are so bizarre and unexplained that they are generally dismissed.

What technology are you referring to? You seem to be jumping around so much that it is hard to follow your thought process.

[Starhunter]

The modern understanding of matter is that matter is somehow self existent, and that anything that can be measured about it somehow contributes to its self existence.
But in ancient times it was understood that matter is a product of forces much greater than matter, which cannot be measured or seen, yet which can be understood by the behavior of matter. And that these supernatural forces are produced by the Word of God. Hebrews 11:3. Romans 1:20. Notice they also understood the role of the Trinity.

Remember in the days of the reformation, it was God fearing men who were pushing the frontiers of scientific discovery. But when evolution crept in, the rapid progress of science came to a grinding halt, and the world has been left to play with the toys of electromagnetism ever since.
At that time, scientists were talking about ether and other names for the background force of matter. What happened to those inquiries? Were they taken any further? The near future will reveal that, and heaven help anyone who is ignorant today.

The belief that ancient monuments were constructed by smart carpenters, is true, but false, because they also knew things the general public do not. The Bible contains enough information to understand what the ancients knew.

We can never know "how God creates," it is an eternal mystery, but whatever the Bible reveals, is for us to hear.

[Starhunter]

Satan has always wanted to claim the powers of God in nature, and uses them if permitted, see Rev 13:13,14. The knowledge of those forces is sometimes understood by the wicked, but history shows that they quickly lose it, either because they worship Lucifer or nature, or destroy themselves by it.
Some of God's people have known these things, and in many cases were better able to handle what the wicked had, eg, Solomon.
Before the flood, it was the faithful descendants of Adam who knew, and the wicked learned from them through intermarriage, until it became common.

It has been Satan's aim to secure any such knowledge with the dark side, keeping things secret. The modern vault is the Catholic church which derived its knowledge by torturing European scientists, Christians and the natives of other lands, until the world was stripped of any knowledge.
Only high ranking Jesuits and Freemasons know about it, who openly worship and acknowledge Lucifer as the 'misunderstood' lord. In keeping with their cruel practices they have allowed a league of nations to develop this vile technology, some of which will be used to impress the masses. The specific country leading this movement is known by a correct understanding of prophecy.
Unfortunately, by the time that the world finds out it will be too late to wake up and be saved. God will allow strong delusions because people have insisted on denying the truth.II Thess 2:9,10.

Why is it important to know anyway? To be ignorant of God's government as Creator, is to be in danger of resisting His authority. Rev 14:7. Knowledge of nature shows us what He is like, which knowledge is salvation. We already know that senseless and brute force are not part of Him.

The gospel shows the meekness of Christ, loving self sacrifice and taking on the role of a servant for us, which role is the cause of both salvation and creation. So we can approach this subject from either perspective. If you know the gospel then creation is an open book, but has science has placed its ugly banner there, blocking your view?

[Mazzy]

Teleporting experiments? While the thought of Star Trek-style teleportation is cool in theory, anything remotely close to that is simply absurd to think about. Quantum mechanics, if we ever found a way to completely control it on a grand scale, could potentially lead to technologies with similar applications on a small scale, but that is probably thinking way too far ahead right now, even optimistically.

Ivellious, generally, I agree with your commentary. Given the thread title I was claiming that there is more scientific evidence in physics for a biblical/instant creation than abiogenesis. As far as the Big Bang is concerned, it is actually based on flawed physics, misrepresented afterglow sketches that do not make any sense. BB hand waves away the 'initial energy' that must have existed to another time.IOW atheists and even some theists propose "In the beginning ...???". Many Theists suggest "In the beginning... God"

However my comments on teleportation are actually based on current scientific research. Rockets going to the moon was once akin to Star Trek. The point I was making is that the universe and life on earth today is made of atoms that are arranged in certain templates with the spark of life running through living organisms.

This is an article speaking to research into teleportation done by the American Research Laboratory.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/eprint/teleport.pdf

[Mazzy]

Satan has always wanted to claim the powers of God in nature, and uses them if permitted, see Rev 13:13,14. The knowledge of those forces is sometimes understood by the wicked, but history shows that they quickly lose it, either because they worship Lucifer or nature, or destroy themselves by it.
Some of God's people have known these things, and in many cases were better able to handle what the wicked had, eg, Solomon.
Before the flood, it was the faithful descendants of Adam who knew, and the wicked learned from them through intermarriage, until it became common.

It has been Satan's aim to secure any such knowledge with the dark side, keeping things secret. The modern vault is the Catholic church which derived its knowledge by torturing European scientists, Christians and the natives of other lands, until the world was stripped of any knowledge.
Only high ranking Jesuits and Freemasons know about it, who openly worship and acknowledge Lucifer as the 'misunderstood' lord. In keeping with their cruel practices they have allowed a league of nations to develop this vile technology, some of which will be used to impress the masses. The specific country leading this movement is known by a correct understanding of prophecy.
Unfortunately, by the time that the world finds out it will be too late to wake up and be saved. God will allow strong delusions because people have insisted on denying the truth.II Thess 2:9,10.

Why is it important to know anyway? To be ignorant of God's government as Creator, is to be in danger of resisting His authority. Rev 14:7. Knowledge of nature shows us what He is like, which knowledge is salvation. We already know that senseless and brute force are not part of Him.

The gospel shows the meekness of Christ, loving self sacrifice and taking on the role of a servant for us, which role is the cause of both salvation and creation. So we can approach this subject from either perspective. If you know the gospel then creation is an open book, but has science has placed its ugly banner there, blocking your view?

You appear to be suggesting you have the knowledge of the ages, that the bible clearly states is sealed until the time of the end.

You also appear to be comfortable passing judgement on others. The bible has some very clear and sad news for you and those that think they/earthlings have any self given authority to judge.

Can you please explain to the forum how you are any different to us, we being the deluded and unsaved?

[Starhunter]

How did you manage find any condemnation or judgement from anything I have said?

Whatever I have read in the Bible is free for all, it is not secret, if it was, I would not be sharing verses.

In regards to the sealing of knowledge, it does not apply to some esoteric whim in the Bible. That text comes from Daniel 12:9 and it is referring specifically to the prophecies of Daniel, which since have been unsealed. If not, then Jesus would not have declared "Let the reader understand." Matthew 24:15.

[Mazzy]

Starhunter you said this

"It has been Satan's aim to secure any such knowledge with the dark side, keeping things secret. The modern vault is the Catholic church which derived its knowledge by torturing European scientists, Christians and the natives of other lands, until the world was stripped of any knowledge.
Only high ranking Jesuits and Freemasons know about it, who openly worship and acknowledge Lucifer as the 'misunderstood' lord. In keeping with their cruel practices they have allowed a league of nations to develop this vile technology, some of which will be used to impress the masses. The specific country leading this movement is known by a correct understanding of prophecy.
Unfortunately, by the time that the world finds out it will be too late to wake up and be saved. God will allow strong delusions because people have insisted on denying the truth.II Thess 2:9,10."

ALL of Chrisitanity has roots to the Catholic church in protest. The only ones that don't are self starter sects like the JWs that also have Russel who was also a protestant that thought he knew better like all sects. Having said that I still think some sects are saved and bring people to God. As I am not perfect I cannot say any sect with wrong teachings (according to me) are any worse in Gods eyes than my own flaws and sin.

Whom are you sugesting is 'the world' that will find out too late to be saved? Are you talking about Catholics alone or all Christians?

What you are speaking to is very much akin to Satanism that suggests Satan is a misunderstood angel and had every right to challenge God whom is cruel and unjust. Are you a satanist? It is only fair that if you are going to have shots at any mainstream faith, you should declare your own. It is all very well to pretend to be squeaky clean. I will claim there is no faith that has clean roots, not even yours. Catholics do not necessarily worship the pope. Even IF the institution is condemned the people within it are not condemned because of their label.

Furthermore to that, how are your comments related to the thread topic.

[Starhunter]

Thanks for that, now I understand where you are coming from, and I am sorry if my post suggested that Catholics/Christians are somehow condemned and deluded. Far from it, no, rather the system of religion held the truth back from the common people. Remember that the Bible was forbidden - you would be imprisoned or torched if you were found reading it, or even having a copied portion of it.
The Papacy was the apostate Christian church using the powers of the ten European nations, sometimes called the Barbarian nations which took advantage of the crumbling Roman empire. These powers are represented as the ten horns coming out of Rome.
Christianity has its roots in the apostles of Christ, as you know it became world wide, competing with paganism, but as predicted by the prophets and apostles it went astray, plunging the world into the dark ages rightly named. See II Thess 2:1-5.
And, yes, ironically it was responsible in part to preserving Christianity, in two ways, by persecuting the saints the Gospel was spread abroad, and by upholding the icons of Christianity through its vain rituals.

As far as Satan worship is concerned, unfortunately actions speak louder than words, you cannot hunt down and kill 60 million people and call it of Christ. Besides the prophecies of Daniel make it very plain who is behind what.

Don't ever feel condemned, you are far too precious to God.

The connection to the thread, I'm lost now, but scientific knowledge died with the truth of the gospel under the reign of the Papacy. Everything worthwhile was withheld from the common people. The average lifespan was reduced to 30 years.

[1over137]

As far as the Big Bang is concerned, it is actually based on flawed physics, misrepresented afterglow sketches that do not make any sense. BB hand waves away the 'initial energy' that must have existed to another time.IOW atheists and even some theists propose "In the beginning ...???". Many Theists suggest "In the beginning... God"

...
The point I was making is that the universe and life on earth today is made of atoms that are arranged in certain templates with the spark of life running through living organisms.

Some references would be good to post.

[Mazzy]

As far as the Big Bang is concerned, it is actually based on flawed physics, misrepresented afterglow sketches that do not make any sense. BB hand waves away the 'initial energy' that must have existed to another time.IOW atheists and even some theists propose "In the beginning ...???". Many Theists suggest "In the beginning... God"

...
The point I was making is that the universe and life on earth today is made of atoms that are arranged in certain templates with the spark of life running through living organisms.

Some references would be good to post.

No problems! What references would you like to see?

Here are a couple of articles you may be interested in...

This article is about missing intergalactic shadows.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 104549.htm

This one is about physics breaking down at the singularity...

"In the centre of a black hole is a gravitational singularity, a one-dimensional point which contains infinite mass in an infinitely small space, where gravity become infinite and space-time curves infinitely, and where the laws of physics as we know them cease to operate. As the eminent American physicist Kip Thorne describes it, it is "the point where all laws of physics break down".

http://www.physicsoftheuniverse.com/top ... ities.html