What would have happened had Adam never sinned?
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neo-x
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Re: What would have happened had Adam never sinned?
lets not bother God, common sense could do.
It would be a blessing if they missed the cairns and got lost on the way back. Or if
the Thing on the ice got them tonight.
I could only turn and stare in horror at the chief surgeon.
Death by starvation is a terrible thing, Goodsir, continued Stanley.
And with that we went below to the flame-flickering Darkness of the lower deck
and to a cold almost the equal of the Dante-esque Ninth Circle Arctic Night
without.
//johnadavid.wordpress.com
the Thing on the ice got them tonight.
I could only turn and stare in horror at the chief surgeon.
Death by starvation is a terrible thing, Goodsir, continued Stanley.
And with that we went below to the flame-flickering Darkness of the lower deck
and to a cold almost the equal of the Dante-esque Ninth Circle Arctic Night
without.
//johnadavid.wordpress.com
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neo-x
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Re: What would have happened had Adam never sinned?
Kenny I think, without death, the planet would be full. My position is different than a majority here but I think the strongest possible logic is that death is not a result of the fall. Death must exist always because without it the planet eventually would turn full, the food cycle would not be balanced at all. Of course the bible does say otherwise and I am left to say that the story of the Adam and eve and the fall is not a factual one.
I just don't see how God planned to run an earth like that, that is unlike God because it goes against logic. That's my take on it anyway.
I just don't see how God planned to run an earth like that, that is unlike God because it goes against logic. That's my take on it anyway.
It would be a blessing if they missed the cairns and got lost on the way back. Or if
the Thing on the ice got them tonight.
I could only turn and stare in horror at the chief surgeon.
Death by starvation is a terrible thing, Goodsir, continued Stanley.
And with that we went below to the flame-flickering Darkness of the lower deck
and to a cold almost the equal of the Dante-esque Ninth Circle Arctic Night
without.
//johnadavid.wordpress.com
the Thing on the ice got them tonight.
I could only turn and stare in horror at the chief surgeon.
Death by starvation is a terrible thing, Goodsir, continued Stanley.
And with that we went below to the flame-flickering Darkness of the lower deck
and to a cold almost the equal of the Dante-esque Ninth Circle Arctic Night
without.
//johnadavid.wordpress.com
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Kenny
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Re: What would have happened had Adam never sinned?
If the story is just a myth, why the story at all? Do you suppose it is designed to make a point? What?neo-x wrote:Kenny I think, without death, the planet would be full. My position is different than a majority here but I think the strongest possible logic is that death is not a result of the fall. Death must exist always because without it the planet eventually would turn full, the food cycle would not be balanced at all. Of course the bible does say otherwise and I am left to say that the story of the Adam and eve and the fall is not a factual one.
I just don't see how God planned to run an earth like that, that is unlike God because it goes against logic. That's my take on it anyway.
Ken
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
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neo-x
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Re: What would have happened had Adam never sinned?
Oral cultures, had such stories passed down so that it was easy for the later generations to remember the core lessons of their religion. I don't think the authors were deliberately fabricating a story. I think it is what they had learned from their ancestors and that is what they wrote down. Some people say these stories are allegories but for this story to be an allegory the author must know what he was writing. It is quite apparent from subsequent writings within the Bible that the authors did indeed believe the story to be true.
And I think these stories generated from some facts at least if not all, it is certainly possible that there was a couple, Adam and eve and they taught their children some lessons about God and eventually the story tellers throughout out later generations compacted it into an account which highlighted their points in a robust, to the point story.
The main thing to remember is that if legends were introduced alongside facts, they were not added to distract from the story but rather strengthen the point the story already was trying to make. Remember, the talking snake is not important, what he said and did, is. In similar fashion, the time in which creation was done is not important, the story is not trying to give that lesson, the lesson is order from Chaos, in symmetry. Hebrews believed that symmetry was beautiful and it finds its ways into several artistic expression in the hebrews, including, poetry (e.g Genesis chp 1), literature, architecture etc.
So I hope this is helpful.
And I think these stories generated from some facts at least if not all, it is certainly possible that there was a couple, Adam and eve and they taught their children some lessons about God and eventually the story tellers throughout out later generations compacted it into an account which highlighted their points in a robust, to the point story.
The main thing to remember is that if legends were introduced alongside facts, they were not added to distract from the story but rather strengthen the point the story already was trying to make. Remember, the talking snake is not important, what he said and did, is. In similar fashion, the time in which creation was done is not important, the story is not trying to give that lesson, the lesson is order from Chaos, in symmetry. Hebrews believed that symmetry was beautiful and it finds its ways into several artistic expression in the hebrews, including, poetry (e.g Genesis chp 1), literature, architecture etc.
So I hope this is helpful.
It would be a blessing if they missed the cairns and got lost on the way back. Or if
the Thing on the ice got them tonight.
I could only turn and stare in horror at the chief surgeon.
Death by starvation is a terrible thing, Goodsir, continued Stanley.
And with that we went below to the flame-flickering Darkness of the lower deck
and to a cold almost the equal of the Dante-esque Ninth Circle Arctic Night
without.
//johnadavid.wordpress.com
the Thing on the ice got them tonight.
I could only turn and stare in horror at the chief surgeon.
Death by starvation is a terrible thing, Goodsir, continued Stanley.
And with that we went below to the flame-flickering Darkness of the lower deck
and to a cold almost the equal of the Dante-esque Ninth Circle Arctic Night
without.
//johnadavid.wordpress.com
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RickD
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Re: What would have happened had Adam never sinned?
Neo,
If parts of Genesis are inaccurate, why couldn't other parts of the bible be inaccurate?
Maybe Christ isn't the only way. If the bible is inaccurate about Genesis, maybe salvation really doesn't rest on trust in Christ.
If parts of Genesis are inaccurate, why couldn't other parts of the bible be inaccurate?
Maybe Christ isn't the only way. If the bible is inaccurate about Genesis, maybe salvation really doesn't rest on trust in Christ.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
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neo-x
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Re: What would have happened had Adam never sinned?
Rick, let's not start this again, I have mentioned already why I think what I think. If you disagree that's fine. My position has no biblical support. It's very obvious.RickD wrote:Neo,
If parts of Genesis are inaccurate, why couldn't other parts of the bible be inaccurate?
Maybe Christ isn't the only way. If the bible is inaccurate about Genesis, maybe salvation really doesn't rest on trust in Christ.
It would be a blessing if they missed the cairns and got lost on the way back. Or if
the Thing on the ice got them tonight.
I could only turn and stare in horror at the chief surgeon.
Death by starvation is a terrible thing, Goodsir, continued Stanley.
And with that we went below to the flame-flickering Darkness of the lower deck
and to a cold almost the equal of the Dante-esque Ninth Circle Arctic Night
without.
//johnadavid.wordpress.com
the Thing on the ice got them tonight.
I could only turn and stare in horror at the chief surgeon.
Death by starvation is a terrible thing, Goodsir, continued Stanley.
And with that we went below to the flame-flickering Darkness of the lower deck
and to a cold almost the equal of the Dante-esque Ninth Circle Arctic Night
without.
//johnadavid.wordpress.com
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RickD
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Re: What would have happened had Adam never sinned?
Neo,neo-x wrote:Rick, let's not start this again, I have mentioned already why I think what I think. If you disagree that's fine. My position has no biblical support. It's very obvious.RickD wrote:Neo,
If parts of Genesis are inaccurate, why couldn't other parts of the bible be inaccurate?
Maybe Christ isn't the only way. If the bible is inaccurate about Genesis, maybe salvation really doesn't rest on trust in Christ.
Something I try to do with my beliefs as well as other people's beliefs, is to take that belief to its logical conclusion. It's one way that I can test those beliefs(including my own), to see if they are something worthy to believe in. If I had a belief in something that I thought contradicted scripture, it would tell me that either my belief was wrong, or my interpretation of scripture is wrong. I just can't see how you can be sure scripture says one thing(YEC), and yet you can believe in something that you are sure scripture doesn't support. I guess I'm just trying to get you to work through this contradiction.
Maybe you've already tried, and you've gotten to the point that you just can't reconcile it. It was something I had to work through a while back regarding my YEC beliefs, and how those beliefs didn't line up with what I saw in creation/nature. It wasn't until I started studying scripture, and with the help of this site and reasons.org, that I finally came to the conclusion that I was comfortable with OEC/PC with regards to both scripture and nature.
I'm not trying to get you to believe in PC. I'm just trying to help you see if you can reconcile a creation belief with scripture.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
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Danieltwotwenty
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Re: What would have happened had Adam never sinned?
RickD wrote:Neo,neo-x wrote:Rick, let's not start this again, I have mentioned already why I think what I think. If you disagree that's fine. My position has no biblical support. It's very obvious.RickD wrote:Neo,
If parts of Genesis are inaccurate, why couldn't other parts of the bible be inaccurate?
Maybe Christ isn't the only way. If the bible is inaccurate about Genesis, maybe salvation really doesn't rest on trust in Christ.
Something I try to do with my beliefs as well as other people's beliefs, is to take that belief to its logical conclusion. It's one way that I can test those beliefs(including my own), to see if they are something worthy to believe in. If I had a belief in something that I thought contradicted scripture, it would tell me that either my belief was wrong, or my interpretation of scripture is wrong. I just can't see how you can be sure scripture says one thing(YEC), and yet you can believe in something that you are sure scripture doesn't support. I guess I'm just trying to get you to work through this contradiction.
Maybe you've already tried, and you've gotten to the point that you just can't reconcile it. It was something I had to work through a while back regarding my YEC beliefs, and how those beliefs didn't line up with what I saw in creation/nature. It wasn't until I started studying scripture, and with the help of this site and reasons.org, that I finally came to the conclusion that I was comfortable with OEC/PC with regards to both scripture and nature.
I'm not trying to get you to believe in PC. I'm just trying to help you see if you can reconcile a creation belief with scripture.
I think like me, Neo just doesn't find it important enough to worry about, it's not like God is going to care how you thought he made everything, it is not a fundamental belief, it is a side issue and nothing more.
But I probably should let Neo speak for himself.
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.
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Silvertusk
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Re: What would have happened had Adam never sinned?
Neo - the Bible does not say there was no death before the fall.neo-x wrote:Kenny I think, without death, the planet would be full. My position is different than a majority here but I think the strongest possible logic is that death is not a result of the fall. Death must exist always because without it the planet eventually would turn full, the food cycle would not be balanced at all. Of course the bible does say otherwise and I am left to say that the story of the Adam and eve and the fall is not a factual one.
I just don't see how God planned to run an earth like that, that is unlike God because it goes against logic. That's my take on it anyway.
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B. W.
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Re: What would have happened had Adam never sinned?
True, as Adam and Eve could eat animal meat if they so choose.Silvertusk wrote:Neo - the Bible does not say there was no death before the fall.neo-x wrote:Kenny I think, without death, the planet would be full. My position is different than a majority here but I think the strongest possible logic is that death is not a result of the fall. Death must exist always because without it the planet eventually would turn full, the food cycle would not be balanced at all. Of course the bible does say otherwise and I am left to say that the story of the Adam and eve and the fall is not a factual one.
I just don't see how God planned to run an earth like that, that is unlike God because it goes against logic. That's my take on it anyway.
++++
And too Kenny...
Since God created the Universe, what makes you think that He could not handle humanity if they never fell into sin? How many earths are there in the universe that need tending and keeping? You think God could not spread humanity to these when needed since there was no human death before the fall of man? Why can't you consider this as the question, What would have happened had Adam never sinned , poses mere speculation. What makes you so sure that God could not handle this matter? What is keeping you away from speculating that he could handle such a matter?
Come on now, what is your real motive for bringing a topic like this up? Are you still determined to put God on trial, mock him, crucify him? Is that your motive or is it more to sway others over to a side that has no moral standing on any matter other than what one creates built on the 'no reason' for human existence other than accidental?
Are you trying to prove God is dead? or that God could not possibly handle an un-fallen human population explosion - the same God who created the entire universe - could not handle that - how absurd!
You admitted elsewhere, that you do not know how the universe came into being, or even where the first stuff came into existence to cause it it to all happen. Nothing cannot create something. Spontaneous nothingness creating likewise cannot create anything as 0 x 0=0 or 0+0=0 demonstrates in a simplistic fashion. You asked about the need for Christ Sacrifice. I answered that and stopped there to let you think on your own about this matter as that shows that God offers a choice - just a choice for you to freely make. On the other hand, atheism offers no choice, only blind obedience to its tenants. Again, why are you so determined to take away that choice God projects to Humanity thru what Jesus accomplished on that Cross?
Do you hate God - if so - why?
Are you not continuing to put on God on trial and mock, him and demand he perform some sign to prove that he exist.? Yet he did provide a big one speaking to you as you gaze at the clear night sky. You appear to be seeking to sway folks to an anti-god camp by raising arguments about: What would have happened had Adam never sinned? Are you not robbing choice from people? Are you not stealing and for this exchange; what do you offer in return - what is it that you really offer? How have you put people on trial in your mind, mock them, beat them with words and actions, demanding they perform to your liking or else - what is it you you really offer? Betrayal? Harsh conformity? Morality based on opinion polls? Who have you hurt in life and let down? Who have you scoffed at? Who have you put down? How good are you really? Ever told a lie, look lustfully at someone or after other things? Never done anything just mentioned? Common on now - human nature is what it is. We are all guilty in equal measure of these things.
...And for This Christ Died to show you and I what sin really is that keeps us away from one who offers a simple choice to return to him to hear him again in the cool of the day, or reject him forever. God is not dead - He speaks and his speech offers a simple choice. Does your way offer such choice? And you cite God as some sort of ogre for offering a choice proved and sealed by blood. Does not your ways silence choice instead? How then can such offer you knowingly or even unknowing impose be really fair and just? Therefore, what will your choice be?
God loved us so much that if he could die, he would on a cross to expose our sin - what keeps us separate us from him - and dealt sin a death blow so that we now have a opportunity to freely return to him. there are 365 days in a year. Every year you have 365 chances to return to the Lord who is alive and desires to build and rebuild your faith in him as well as provide answers for what troubles your mind and heal whatever caused you to hate Him. Everyday he knocks on your heart's door. why do you refuse to listen to his plea to simply trust him?
John 3:15-21 is yours for the asking... the choice is yours alone to make.
Silly mind games will not cut it... think about it...
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Science is man's invention - creation is God's
(by B. W. Melvin)
Old Polish Proverb:
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Old Polish Proverb:
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Kenny
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Re: What would have happened had Adam never sinned?
BW Since God created the Universe, what makes you think that He could not handle humanity if they never fell into sin?
Ken I never said he couldn’t I was asking you how would he do it?
BW How many earths are there in the universe that need tending and keeping?
Ken I don’t know of any; do you? Does scripture claim there are other earths?
BW You think God could not spread humanity to these when needed since there was no human death before the fall of man? Why can't you consider this as the question,
Ken I could consider it if that is your answer. Is that what you believe?
BW Come on now, what is your real motive for bringing a topic like this up?
Ken Are you offended by the question I asked? Why???
BW Are you still determined to put God on trial, mock him, crucify him? Is that your motive or is it more to sway others over to a side that has no moral standing on any
Ken Do you really think I believe people on this forum are so spiritually weak that a simple question like “what would have happened had Adam never sinned” could cause them to quit Christianity and come to the “dark side” with me? (LOL) C’mon I’ve talked with you before, you know better than that.
BW Are you trying to prove God is dead? or that God could not possibly handle an un-fallen human population explosion - the same God who created the entire universe - could not handle that - how absurd!
Ken This would be comical if you weren’t serious! Actually.... it is rather comical.
BW You admitted elsewhere, that you do not know how the universe came into being, or even where the first stuff came into existence to cause it it to all happen. Nothing cannot create something.
Ken Um... If you are gonna put words in my mouth, at least use my words rather than make up your own. What I actually said was that I believe the Universe has always existed, and the first stuff always existed as well thus none of it ever came into being.
BW On the other hand, atheism offers no choice, only blind obedience to its tenants.
Ken Yep! That’s right! Atheism requires strict obedience to its tenants, and if anybody dares to disobey the laws of atheism, we will kick them out of the club and make them become Christians!
BW Do you hate God - if so - why?
Are you not continuing to put on God on trial and mock, him and demand he perform some sign to prove that he exist.? Yet he did provide a big one speaking to you as you gaze at the clear night sky. You appear to be seeking to sway folks to an anti-god camp
Ken Anti-God camp??? Yep! You found me out! You’ve discovered my secret agenda; I am starting an anti-God camp for good ole Christian folk like yourself where you will learn to not like free choice and prefer strict obedience to Atheism. . For just $9.99 per month you can join my anti-God camp that comes with a free trip to the “dark side” and if you join right now; you get a free hat and t-shirt with the camp logo on it. Call now; operaters are standing by
BW Are you not robbing choice from people? Are you not stealing and for this exchange; what do you offer in return
Ken A free hat and t-shirt if you join my anti-God camp! But you gotta join today!
BW - what is it that you really offer? How have you put people on trial in your mind, mock them, beat them with words and actions, demanding they perform to your liking or else - what is it you you really offer? Betrayal? Harsh conformity? Morality based on opinion polls? Who have you hurt in life and let down? Who have you scoffed at? Who have you put down? How good are you really? Ever told a lie, look lustfully at someone or after other things? Never done anything just mentioned?
Ken Dude! I am trying to run an anti-God camp here! I think we can both agree that I've got bigger fish to fry; but don't worry, if you join my anti-God camp, you can learn all of those things. Of course if you fail to perfect those evil deeds, we kick you out of the camp, take away your atheist card and make you a Christian! But don’t worry my friend, I get a feeling you will be a perfect fit; you sound like a quick learner. Remember; $9.99 per month you get a membership to Ken Jones anti-God camp that comes with a trip to the dark side as well as a free hat and t-shirt if you join today! Call now; operaters are standing by!
Ken
Ken I never said he couldn’t I was asking you how would he do it?
BW How many earths are there in the universe that need tending and keeping?
Ken I don’t know of any; do you? Does scripture claim there are other earths?
BW You think God could not spread humanity to these when needed since there was no human death before the fall of man? Why can't you consider this as the question,
Ken I could consider it if that is your answer. Is that what you believe?
BW Come on now, what is your real motive for bringing a topic like this up?
Ken Are you offended by the question I asked? Why???
BW Are you still determined to put God on trial, mock him, crucify him? Is that your motive or is it more to sway others over to a side that has no moral standing on any
Ken Do you really think I believe people on this forum are so spiritually weak that a simple question like “what would have happened had Adam never sinned” could cause them to quit Christianity and come to the “dark side” with me? (LOL) C’mon I’ve talked with you before, you know better than that.
BW Are you trying to prove God is dead? or that God could not possibly handle an un-fallen human population explosion - the same God who created the entire universe - could not handle that - how absurd!
Ken This would be comical if you weren’t serious! Actually.... it is rather comical.
BW You admitted elsewhere, that you do not know how the universe came into being, or even where the first stuff came into existence to cause it it to all happen. Nothing cannot create something.
Ken Um... If you are gonna put words in my mouth, at least use my words rather than make up your own. What I actually said was that I believe the Universe has always existed, and the first stuff always existed as well thus none of it ever came into being.
BW On the other hand, atheism offers no choice, only blind obedience to its tenants.
Ken Yep! That’s right! Atheism requires strict obedience to its tenants, and if anybody dares to disobey the laws of atheism, we will kick them out of the club and make them become Christians!
BW Do you hate God - if so - why?
Are you not continuing to put on God on trial and mock, him and demand he perform some sign to prove that he exist.? Yet he did provide a big one speaking to you as you gaze at the clear night sky. You appear to be seeking to sway folks to an anti-god camp
Ken Anti-God camp??? Yep! You found me out! You’ve discovered my secret agenda; I am starting an anti-God camp for good ole Christian folk like yourself where you will learn to not like free choice and prefer strict obedience to Atheism. . For just $9.99 per month you can join my anti-God camp that comes with a free trip to the “dark side” and if you join right now; you get a free hat and t-shirt with the camp logo on it. Call now; operaters are standing by
BW Are you not robbing choice from people? Are you not stealing and for this exchange; what do you offer in return
Ken A free hat and t-shirt if you join my anti-God camp! But you gotta join today!
BW - what is it that you really offer? How have you put people on trial in your mind, mock them, beat them with words and actions, demanding they perform to your liking or else - what is it you you really offer? Betrayal? Harsh conformity? Morality based on opinion polls? Who have you hurt in life and let down? Who have you scoffed at? Who have you put down? How good are you really? Ever told a lie, look lustfully at someone or after other things? Never done anything just mentioned?
Ken Dude! I am trying to run an anti-God camp here! I think we can both agree that I've got bigger fish to fry; but don't worry, if you join my anti-God camp, you can learn all of those things. Of course if you fail to perfect those evil deeds, we kick you out of the camp, take away your atheist card and make you a Christian! But don’t worry my friend, I get a feeling you will be a perfect fit; you sound like a quick learner. Remember; $9.99 per month you get a membership to Ken Jones anti-God camp that comes with a trip to the dark side as well as a free hat and t-shirt if you join today! Call now; operaters are standing by!
Ken
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
Re: What would have happened had Adam never sinned?
This thread leaves the question, "What does the term Earth mean?" We call this planet, "Wilderness Earth." As we see all the bodies in the heavens, we also give names to them. We called the Garden, "Paradise Earth."Are these not all made of the same material as Wilderness earth? Is it possible the whole universe is earth? Is it not also possible that man was intended to expand out into the vastness of our universe, and care for all of it? Why would God create such a vastness of planets, and create man to care for just one of them?
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Kenny
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Re: What would have happened had Adam never sinned?
You kinda lost me on this one bro. I have never heard of Earth refered to as Wilderness Earth, Paradise Earth or anything else other than Planet Earth. Is this something that comes from the Bible?Domenic wrote:This thread leaves the question, "What does the term Earth mean?" We call this planet, "Wilderness Earth." As we see all the bodies in the heavens, we also give names to them. We called the Garden, "Paradise Earth."Are these not all made of the same material as Wilderness earth? Is it possible the whole universe is earth? Is it not also possible that man was intended to expand out into the vastness of our universe, and care for all of it? Why would God create such a vastness of planets, and create man to care for just one of them?
As far as the many planets and is man responsible for for more than one of them, from a christian standpoint, I think you make a very good point.
Ken
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
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Lonewolf
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Re: What would have happened had Adam never sinned?
Don't Mormons have that same type of theology where one will become a sort of god, creator and maintainer of other planets?
That may be so, but, that would only make sense to me "if" there wasn't an order to things.,
Just like the HS gives certain gifts to each person, so too, I think, our place in the order of things will dictate what our place in the cosmos will be.,
and that doesn't necessarily mean that you'll have the "controls" to anything!
That may be so, but, that would only make sense to me "if" there wasn't an order to things.,
Just like the HS gives certain gifts to each person, so too, I think, our place in the order of things will dictate what our place in the cosmos will be.,
and that doesn't necessarily mean that you'll have the "controls" to anything!
Your outward profession of having put on Christ, has as yet to put off Plato from your heart!
Re: What would have happened had Adam never sinned?
BW,
Animals, fish, birds, and plants always died. Adam, and Eve never ate animals. True the sons of the angels who were giants did...they even ate humans, as per the scrolls of Enoch. God gave Noah all the animals to eat after the flood...there was no food left on earth. maybe that is why Noah got drunk.
Animals, fish, birds, and plants always died. Adam, and Eve never ate animals. True the sons of the angels who were giants did...they even ate humans, as per the scrolls of Enoch. God gave Noah all the animals to eat after the flood...there was no food left on earth. maybe that is why Noah got drunk.