Discussions on Christian eschatology including different views pertaining to Jesus' second coming, rapture and tribulation, the millennium, and so forth.
hal wrote:I realize there is much controversy over whether the raptire is pre-trib, mid-trib or post-trib.
I have read that there could be more than one trib which would satisfy all the Scriptures about the rapture.
However the more then One Trib is not Biblically Supported. If you can show some Scriptures and how they work together that would be great
hal wrote:I did a search on the internet for "More than one rapture.?"
and here is what I found.
Also, Marvine Rosenthal has written a very compelling book entitled, "Pre-wrath Rapture that I found very challenging to me a heretofor pre-tribber
Sorry the Many Raptures still does not cut the cheese Enoch being Raptured is correct but Elijah being Raptured is not entirely slow as he was taken up via Chariot of Fire
However their thoughts are interesting. Hopefully I will not be around for the Tribulation but am ready if that is the Case!
Prodigal Son wrote:everyone always mentions it...what is rapture? a time, event to come, a feeling?
It is a false doctrine invented by John Nelson Darby and the Plymouth Brethren in the early 1800's. It isn't taught in the Bible or anywhere in Christianity before this time. Hate to break it to you, but you aren't getting out of life alive. We are all going to die unless we fulfill the Great Commission within the next 100 years.
puritan lad wrote:
It is a false doctrine invented by John Nelson Darby and the Plymouth Brethren in the early 1800's. It isn't taught in the Bible or anywhere in Christianity before this time. Hate to break it to you, but you aren't getting out of life alive. We are all going to die unless we fulfill the Great Commission within the next 100 years.
What the...
Last edited by ochotseat on Sat Aug 27, 2005 5:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I have always been a believer in the pre-trib version. For me anyway it fits the scriptures the best, especially 1 thes 4. My question is what kind of hope is there for a Christian if the rapture is post-trib or non-existant? It seems to me that its a waste of time to follow Christ if there is no rapture. Thats my reasonn for following Him!
I fail to see either the hope in your eschatology or how it best fits the scriptures, especially 1 Thess. 4. 1 Thess. 4 makes no mention whatsoever of a "tribulation period". In fact, the "rapture" of 1 Thess. 4:17 takes place AFTER the last days resurrection. It plainly states that "the dead in Christ shall rise first". When does that happen? It happens on the "last day". (See Dan. 12:23; John 6:39, 40, 44). So where does this 7 year tribulation period fit in? The Great Tribulation was a first century event (Matthew 24:21, 34).
What is the hope of the postmillennialist? The fulfillment of the Great Commission and the resurrection to eternal life. No matter how you slice it, premillennialism teaches the defeat of the church, at least in this age. It teaches that Satan is in control of the world. It is going to hell in a handbasket, getting worse and worse, and the only hope for the Christian is to get "raptured" out of the mess before it gets to bad. I ask you, "Where is the hope in that?"
The passage in 1 Thes 4 is talking about a pre-tribb rapture!! The meeting with Christ in the clouds is the blessed hope we Christians have. Having 100 pound hailstones fall on me is not something I want to look forward to. I thought we were not appointed to wrath by God and yet thats what we face if we go through the tribulation! why bother following Christ if there's no hope?
And the pre-trib is victory for the church according to 1 Cor 15 not defeat. And you have it backwords as far as Satan goess. His evil will be felt by the whole world and we who belong to Christ will not be part of it but we will watch it from heaven with Christ. Revelation 20 talks about Christ returning from Heaven with his saints (us). How can we be raised with him and return with him at the same time? That makes no sense.
Matthiew 24 is not talking about the rapture at all but about those who will be saved during the tribulation! If you read Matt 24 as the rapture you have a serious contradiction with 1 Thes 4 because they both talk about different things. There is a time coming when Christ will gather his elect to appear with him in the clouds. Also the whole world will know when Christ returns if the post trib view is right and there will be no surprize. Yet Jesus will return as a theif in the night. Christ has to come before the tribulation. Why in the world does anyone want to have 100 pound hailstones fall on those who have trusted Christ? The point of the tribulation was about the non-believing world and to Israel especially so what does the trib have to do with us? Why should God's wrath be meant for us?
You missed the whole point of my question, so let me clarify.
Here is what Jesus told his disciples concerning the "great tribulation".
Matthew 24:21, 34 "For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be... Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place."
I've heard many wannabe Greek scholars attempt to rewrite verse 34 to say something that it doesn't, but there is no mistaking what Jesus said here. The great tribulation was to happen within the generation of those who heard these words.
Now, as to my question, on what basis do you claim the 1 Thess. 4 speaks of a "pre-trib" rapture, especially when the entire book of 1 Thess, makes no mention of a tribulation? Jesus said that the resurrection of the righteous would take place "on the last day". Paul says that this event is to be followed by (if you will) the "rapture". No mention of a tribulation period. Were Jesus and Paul mistaken?
I am a pre trib always have been and always will be. I believe we are not predestined to wrath. I don't see how 1 Thes 4 could possiblly be about any post trib rapture, and neither did any of the rest of my Bible study group when we looked at that chapter a few months ago. Tell me something: How is verses 40 and 41 possible in a post trib rapture? Jesus says that one will be taken and the other standing still! I have yet to have any post tribber explain what hope any Christian has if we are going through the tribulation! I think you miss the point of the tribulation here. It was meant for the nation of Israel. God is dealing with that nation bringing the Jews to himself. God is dealing also with the non-believers here. Where do we fit in if the rapture is post trib? Why do you want to go throuigh all the plagues that Revelation clearly describes? Its not something we look forward to. How about Jesus coming as a theif in the night? Where's the surprize in a post trib rapture? The whole world will know when Jesus comes and morn over him! That hardly sounds like any kind of a blessed hope we might have. The rapture term might not be in the Bible but the term "blessed hope" is. How in the world can we have that in a post trib rapture?
Enoch being Raptured is correct but Elijah being Raptured is not entirely slow as he was taken up via Chariot of Fire 
