Letters from paul

[Domenic]

Not all things in the New Testament

• • are inspired by God.

[Lonewolf]

You're right, in regards to the Catholic Bible., I have one that was left to me which has come down from generation to generation., It is very big in size and has a lot of artwork, the deluge, the temptation of Christ, the parting of the Red Sea, etc. It has also the apocryphal books, but it has been so long since I have taken it out of its storage, that I've forgotten what those books are., but I do know that they are no longer found in newer Catholic Bibles.

In regards to Paul's letters, I hear what you're pointing to., some would label Paul's letters as Pauline Theology., Here's some reading on how Paul's letters and the NT came together and became accepted as part of Holy Scripture.

Link ~> http://www.churchhistory101.com/new-testament-canon.php

[Domenic]

You're right, in regards to the Catholic Bible., I have one that was left to me which has come down from generation to generation., It is very big in size and has a lot of artwork, the deluge, the temptation of Christ, the parting of the Red Sea, etc. It has also the apocryphal books, but it has been so long since I have taken it out of its storage, that I've forgotten what those books are., but I do know that they are no longer found in newer Catholic Bibles.

In regards to Paul's letters, I hear what you're pointing to., some would label Paul's letters as Pauline Theology., Here's some reading on how Paul's letters and the NT came together and became accepted as part of Holy Scripture.

Link ~> http://www.churchhistory101.com/new-testament-canon.php

After the death of Jesus, there were many different bible written. Those with money were the main compilers. When it is written, "The church father put the bible together, what church was that, the catholic church?

[B. W.]

Not all things in the New Testament are inspired by God. The letters of Paul are just that, Letters. Yes he quoted scripture, but, God did not say to Paul, "Sit down and write what I tell you in your letters."
I'm sure if Paul, and those others who wrote letters that are in the New Testament knew they would be printed in a book, would have taken more care. Some day in the future people may read post in this forum which also have scriptures...I hope they don't think God told us to write these things. I know he didn't tell me...did he tell you?
I believe the Bible is the word of God the Father. But, when men put the book together, they left out some scrolls, and put in some letter. The bible does not replace the scrolls...the scrolls are the word of God.
I was born into a Catholic family 78 years ago. I remember what the catholic bible was like then...it is not the same today...there are books in it that were not here before?

Not much faith in the sovereignty of God in choosing Paul, or compiling the bible we have now, do you?

So the question must be ask, why should anyone listen to you? If we follow your logic, only the Old Testament from the JPS would be accepted as all the NT are but letters. I see that your faith is small and non-existent and with that, you might desire to spread your doubts around as the supreme authority?

As stated in the article quoted: It comes down to whether or not you believe what it says about Christ. Do you?

Is the Bible reliable?
by Matt Slick
http://carm.org/is-the-bible-reliable

One of the most important questions asked by non-Christians as they look into Christianity is whether or not the Bible is trustworthy. Can the Bible be trusted? If it has been corrupted, then we cannot trust what is attributed to Jesus' words and deeds. So, is the Bible reliable or not?

Yes, the Bible is reliable. The original writings of the Bible have been lost. But before they were lost, they were copied. These copies were incredibly accurate, very meticulous, and very precise. The people who copied them were extremely dedicated to God and their copying tasks. They took great care when copying the original manuscripts. This copying method is so exact, and so precise, that the New Testament alone is considered to be 99.5% textually pure. This means that of the 6000 Greek copies (the New Testament was written in Greek), and the additional 21,000 copies in other languages, there is only one half of 1% variation. Of this very slight number, the great majority of the variants are easily corrected by comparing them to other copies that don't have the "typos" or by simply reading the context. You should know that copying mistakes occur in such ways as word repetition, spelling, or a single word omission due to the copyist missing something when moving his eyes from one line to another. The variants are very minor. Nothing affects doctrinal truth and the words and deeds of Christ are superbly reliably transmitted to us.

The science of studying ancient literature and its accuracy of transmission to is called historicity. The Bible is so exceedingly accurate in its transmission from the originals to the present copies, that if you compare it to any other ancient writing, the Bible is light years ahead in terms of number of manuscripts and accuracy. If the Bible were to be discredited as being unreliable, then it would be necessary to discard the writings of Homer, Plato, and Aristotle as also unreliable since they are far far less well preserved than the Bible.

The Bible was written by those who were inspired by God, so it is accurate and true, and represents historical occurrences. When we look at the New Testament we realize that it was written by those who either knew Jesus personally, or were under the direction of those who did. They wrote what they saw. They wrote about the resurrection of Christ. They recorded His miracles and His sayings. It comes down to whether or not you believe what it says about Christ. Do you?

For more information on the Bible and its reliability, please go to www.carm.org/christianity/bible.

[Domenic]

Not all things in the New Testament are inspired by God. The letters of Paul are just that, Letters. Yes he quoted scripture, but, God did not say to Paul, "Sit down and write what I tell you in your letters."
I'm sure if Paul, and those others who wrote letters that are in the New Testament knew they would be printed in a book, would have taken more care. Some day in the future people may read post in this forum which also have scriptures...I hope they don't think God told us to write these things. I know he didn't tell me...did he tell you?
I believe the Bible is the word of God the Father. But, when men put the book together, they left out some scrolls, and put in some letter. The bible does not replace the scrolls...the scrolls are the word of God.
I was born into a Catholic family 78 years ago. I remember what the catholic bible was like then...it is not the same today...there are books in it that were not here before?

Not much faith in the sovereignty of God in choosing Paul, or compiling the bible we have now, do you?

So the question must be ask, why should anyone listen to you? If we follow your logic, only the Old Testament from the JPS would be accepted as all the NT are but letters. I see that your faith is small and non-existent and with that, you might desire to spread your doubts around as the supreme authority?

As stated in the article quoted: It comes down to whether or not you believe what it says about Christ. Do you?

Is the Bible reliable?
by Matt Slick
http://carm.org/is-the-bible-reliable

One of the most important questions asked by non-Christians as they look into Christianity is whether or not the Bible is trustworthy. Can the Bible be trusted? If it has been corrupted, then we cannot trust what is attributed to Jesus' words and deeds. So, is the Bible reliable or not?

Yes, the Bible is reliable. The original writings of the Bible have been lost. But before they were lost, they were copied. These copies were incredibly accurate, very meticulous, and very precise. The people who copied them were extremely dedicated to God and their copying tasks. They took great care when copying the original manuscripts. This copying method is so exact, and so precise, that the New Testament alone is considered to be 99.5% textually pure. This means that of the 6000 Greek copies (the New Testament was written in Greek), and the additional 21,000 copies in other languages, there is only one half of 1% variation. Of this very slight number, the great majority of the variants are easily corrected by comparing them to other copies that don't have the "typos" or by simply reading the context. You should know that copying mistakes occur in such ways as word repetition, spelling, or a single word omission due to the copyist missing something when moving his eyes from one line to another. The variants are very minor. Nothing affects doctrinal truth and the words and deeds of Christ are superbly reliably transmitted to us.

The science of studying ancient literature and its accuracy of transmission to is called historicity. The Bible is so exceedingly accurate in its transmission from the originals to the present copies, that if you compare it to any other ancient writing, the Bible is light years ahead in terms of number of manuscripts and accuracy. If the Bible were to be discredited as being unreliable, then it would be necessary to discard the writings of Homer, Plato, and Aristotle as also unreliable since they are far far less well preserved than the Bible.

The Bible was written by those who were inspired by God, so it is accurate and true, and represents historical occurrences. When we look at the New Testament we realize that it was written by those who either knew Jesus personally, or were under the direction of those who did. They wrote what they saw. They wrote about the resurrection of Christ. They recorded His miracles and His sayings. It comes down to whether or not you believe what it says about Christ. Do you?

For more information on the Bible and its reliability, please go to http://www.carm.org/christianity/bible.

You seem to follow Matt Slick more than you follow Jesus...Matt Slick is known to twist word in the Bible. Paul only saw Jesus after the death of Jesus. Paul was not told by God to write those letters. True Paul wrote truth in the letter, but not at the direction of God as Daniel did. There is a big difference between a man writing a letter, and writing word for word what God tells a man to write.
You do not like my testing Gods word...you think it is evil, or something. Well friend, here is what God says;
1 John 4:1 "Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired expression, but test the expressions to see whether they originate with God."
I have tested, do test, and will test until My lord Jesus returns. Until that time, I test Gods word, and believe little of what religions or those who follow religions say is truth. I never follow any religion, or man who says my Lord Jesus is God the Father.
Do you test the written word as Father commands?

[B. W.]

You seem to follow Matt Slick more than you follow Jesus...Matt Slick is known to twist word in the Bible. Paul only saw Jesus after the death of Jesus. Paul was not told by God to write those letters. True Paul wrote truth in the letter, but not at the direction of God as Daniel did. There is a big difference between a man writing a letter, and writing word for word what God tells a man to write.

You do not like my testing Gods word...you think it is evil, or something. Well friend, here is what God says;

1 John 4:1 "Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired expression, but test the expressions to see whether they originate with God."

I have tested, do test, and will test until My lord Jesus returns. Until that time, I test Gods word, and believe little of what religions or those who follow religions say is truth. I never follow any religion, or man who says my Lord Jesus is God the Father.
Do you test the written word as Father commands?

I test yours by the word of God and you are lacking coherency to what the bible teaches. You teach a created false Christ - and not the real one.

This is what the Bible mentions and what God himself spoke in Isaiah:

Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD, And besides Me there is no savior.

Isa 45:21 Tell and bring forth your case; Yes, let them take counsel together. Who has declared this from ancient time? Who has told it from that time? Have not I, the LORD? And there is no other God besides Me, A just God and a Savior; There is none besides Me.

Hosea 13:4 "Yet I am the LORD your God Ever since the land of Egypt, And you shall know no God but Me; For there is no savior besides Me. NKJV

Now, this is what John mentions

1 John 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world.

This is what Peter mentions

Acts 4:1012, "...let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole. 11 This is the 'STONE WHICH WAS REJECTED BY YOU BUILDERS, WHICH HAS BECOME THE CHIEF CORNERSTONE.' 12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."

Jesus is God and not a created being...who came to expose the true sin in the human heart as Matthew chapters 26 and 27 reveal. Are you not bearing false witness against me, are you not putting folks on trial here, have you not plotted, planned and schemed in some manner of form against folks trying to reach you? Have you not mocked us, scourged us with your own snide remarks and words? Jesus mentioned a principle in Matthew 25 - when you done it to the least of these my brethren, you done so to me....

That is the power of the cross which Jesus hung, in our place, paying our death penalty for us, exposing the true insidious sin of the human heart by the events of Matthew 26 and 27 seen also at the base of the cross where he hung. You sir, or ma’am - are guilty and face God's wrath as your words betray your mocking heart. You have no tact, only bitter pride of being right you love more than all else.

Think of it for a moment, Jesus died for us in a open arm hugging position because God so loved the world that he sent himself, his own Logos, into this world and we put the nails in his wrist and feet preventing his loving embrace of reconciliation proven by how many times we have bore false witness, put others on trial, plotted, planned and schemed against in some manner, mocked, scourged, beaten, betrayed - how have you?

You think you are such a good old coot that God will just let you waltz into heaven with the actions, words, and manners you proven demonstrated clearly here? You think good deeds will earn your place in the son, well, you erased them all by your words here. Jesus Christ, God come in human flesh, as water can be ice, vapor, and liquid yet all be the same essence 'water'; therefore, Jesus (like vapor from water) came from God and was God come in human flesh (2nd person of the Godhead Trinity) to save us from our true sins of the heart. He came to grant us new life and heals the riff between us a God.

Jesus rose from the dead, tasting our death for us, so he can now hug with his loving embrace us, restoring our lives and sealing our souls as his own special possession, eternally secure. There are no nails keeping him from hugging us because he rose from the dead for us who believe in Him as savior and Lord of our lives. No more can our sins nail him to a cross – by his stripes we are healed…

You mock the bible and belittle it. Shall I quote your post that verifies this fact? You keep seeking to drive in those nails and prevent others from finding their redeemer Jesus Christ. All that is required is to believe on him, what he did for you by taking your nails, your betrayal, mockings, etc & etc, and come to him repenting, turning to him for forgiveness by trusting in his grace alone shown on the cross and in His resurrection. Please Pray the simple prayer Jesus revealed in Luke 18:13 and find the salvation of God our savior Jesus Christ real…

But on the other hand:

Keep rejecting him - he will reject you. You came on this forum for a reason - most likely your last chance to meet the real Lord of Glory. I know him and he knows me. He does not know you...

1 John 4:1-3. "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.1Jn 4:2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world. NKJV

[PaulSacramento]

The fact that Paul's letters have comments like "Not me but the Lord..." and "Not the Lord but I", make it clear that there were times that Paul was indeed passing down the Word of God.
If that isn't divine inspiration, then what is?
That said, yes it is clear that not all writings in the bible are under the SAME degree of inspiration and the Gospel of Luke and Acts are fine examples, why?
Because Luke openly admits that he is writing based on the information gathered by others:

Luke 1 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

Introduction
1 Inasmuch as many have undertaken to compile an account of the things accomplished among us, 2 just as they were handed down to us by those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and servants of the word, 3 it seemed fitting for me as well, having investigated everything carefully from the beginning, to write it out for you in consecutive order, most excellent Theophilus; 4 so that you may know the exact truth about the things you have been taught.

Of course it can be said that Luke was under the inspiration of the HS to do just that, so...

It always comes back to what was meant by "God breathed" and "inspired by the holy spirit", not to US mind you, but to those that wrote those very words.

[Domenic]

These were letter addressed to congregations. Each was to a different congregation. If they had been meant for all congregations they would have been addressed so.
When God the Father, or Jesus our Lord spoke, it was to all people.
Yes these letters have value to Christians…but, not as Gods laws. All the laws given were given by Father, and his son…those who wrote these letters were just trying to make those laws clear to the sheep of that time.
Do I think they should have been in the Bible? Yes, at the back, not as inspired by Father. Nor were they intended to be.

[PaulSacramento]

These were letter addressed to congregations. Each was to a different congregation. If they had been meant for all congregations they would have been addressed so.
When God the Father, or Jesus our Lord spoke, it was to all people.
Yes these letters have value to Christians…but, not as Gods laws. All the laws given were given by Father, and his son…those who wrote these letters were just trying to make those laws clear to the sheep of that time.
Do I think they should have been in the Bible? Yes, at the back, not as inspired by Father. Nor were they intended to be.

BY that token the words of the prophets if Israel that were addressed to the Hebrews should only apply to them?
The message of the prophets was about Israel, for Israel, to Israel.

I think that it is important to distinguish in the WHOLE of the bible what IS Inspired writing, what MAY be and what clearly isn't.
HOW we do that is a bit tricky of course.
At times it is clear, like when a prophet says "The Lord said..." or when Paul says " Not me but the Lord..." or anything that Christ has said ( He is the WORD of God after all).
The rest of the times is the tricky part.

That said, if we use 2Timothy as a guide:
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

The we see that ALL scripture is good for doctrine, proof, correction and instruction for doing what is right and that it helps equip us for good works.

In short the bible is there to lead us to Christ yes, BUT also valuable as a guide on what to do that is right.

[Domenic]

These were letter addressed to congregations. Each was to a different congregation. If they had been meant for all congregations they would have been addressed so.
When God the Father, or Jesus our Lord spoke, it was to all people.
Yes these letters have value to Christians…but, not as Gods laws. All the laws given were given by Father, and his son…those who wrote these letters were just trying to make those laws clear to the sheep of that time.
Do I think they should have been in the Bible? Yes, at the back, not as inspired by Father. Nor were they intended to be.

BY that token the words of the prophets if Israel that were addressed to the Hebrews should only apply to them?
The message of the prophets was about Israel, for Israel, to Israel.

I think that it is important to distinguish in the WHOLE of the bible what IS Inspired writing, what MAY be and what clearly isn't.
HOW we do that is a bit tricky of course.
At times it is clear, like when a prophet says "The Lord said..." or when Paul says " Not me but the Lord..." or anything that Christ has said ( He is the WORD of God after all).
The rest of the times is the tricky part.

That said, if we use 2Timothy as a guide:
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

The we see that ALL scripture is good for doctrine, proof, correction and instruction for doing what is right and that it helps equip us for good works.

In short the bible is there to lead us to Christ yes, BUT also valuable as a guide on what to do that is right.

You are taking a letter addressed to congregations as scripture...it is not. There are scriptures used the the letters...those are from God, but the letter itself is not.

[PaulSacramento]

These were letter addressed to congregations. Each was to a different congregation. If they had been meant for all congregations they would have been addressed so.
When God the Father, or Jesus our Lord spoke, it was to all people.
Yes these letters have value to Christians…but, not as Gods laws. All the laws given were given by Father, and his son…those who wrote these letters were just trying to make those laws clear to the sheep of that time.
Do I think they should have been in the Bible? Yes, at the back, not as inspired by Father. Nor were they intended to be.

BY that token the words of the prophets if Israel that were addressed to the Hebrews should only apply to them?
The message of the prophets was about Israel, for Israel, to Israel.

I think that it is important to distinguish in the WHOLE of the bible what IS Inspired writing, what MAY be and what clearly isn't.
HOW we do that is a bit tricky of course.
At times it is clear, like when a prophet says "The Lord said..." or when Paul says " Not me but the Lord..." or anything that Christ has said ( He is the WORD of God after all).
The rest of the times is the tricky part.

That said, if we use 2Timothy as a guide:
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

The we see that ALL scripture is good for doctrine, proof, correction and instruction for doing what is right and that it helps equip us for good works.

In short the bible is there to lead us to Christ yes, BUT also valuable as a guide on what to do that is right.

You are taking a letter addressed to congregations as scripture...it is not. There are scriptures used the the letters...those are from God, but the letter itself is not.

From that POV, what is scripture then?

[Lonewolf]

I second Paul's question, Dom, what is scripture to you? Which books of the Bible do you think are the ones which we are to solely base our understanding of Christ? What other books outside the Bible, do you go to for "inspired" scripture?