Reconciling the John 3 with John 6

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B. W.
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Re: Reconciling the John 3 with John 6

Post by B. W. »

B. W. wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:How do we reconcile John 3:16
16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

With John 6:52-58
52 Then the Jews began to argue with one another, saying, “How can this man give us His flesh to eat?” 53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. 54 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. 55 For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink. 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me, he also will live because of Me. 58 This is the bread which came down out of heaven; not as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live forever.”
During what feast days did these occur?

Next, what rituals and traditions occurred..?

In that you'll uncover the answer, so, list the feast days per chapter and we will go on from there
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Re: Reconciling the John 3 with John 6

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Not sure what you mean BW...
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Re: Reconciling the John 3 with John 6

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The last supper coincided with the Jewish Passover. Jewish families at this time would have been breaking bread and sharing wine at the exact time Jesus was, as they had done for centuries, but not in mind of Jesus's sacrifice and crucifixion, it was done so by the old law, when Moses told pharaoh that the first born would be sacrificed. This became the Passover. Bread was broken and shared and wine was shared. When Jesus shared this meal with His disciples, many Jewish families were sharing in the exact type of 'meal' on the exact same night but with different meaning.
The law of Moses wasn't done away with but fulfilled.
Jesus is the flesh, His word made flesh, His message made the body, His sacrifice securing a new covenant, the old made new.
"Do this in memory of me" means to understand the new covenant. His sacrifice, the blood He split, His flesh. These words Jesus spoke meant to understand that whoever eats His flesh realises that His sacrifice surpasses all old laws and whoever drinks His blood understands that His sacrifice for humanity is the new covenant.
Nothing else is needed but to "eat of His flesh" (understand that God was made flesh) and drink His blood (understand that His crucifixion cleanses our spirits).
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B. W.
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Re: Reconciling the John 3 with John 6

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melanie wrote:The last supper coincided with the Jewish Passover. Jewish families at this time would have been breaking bread and sharing wine at the exact time Jesus was, as they had done for centuries, but not in mind of Jesus's sacrifice and crucifixion, it was done so by the old law, when Moses told pharaoh that the first born would be sacrificed. This became the Passover. Bread was broken and shared and wine was shared. When Jesus shared this meal with His disciples, many Jewish families were sharing in the exact type of 'meal' on the exact same night but with different meaning.
The law of Moses wasn't done away with but fulfilled.
Jesus is the flesh, His word made flesh, His message made the body, His sacrifice securing a new covenant, the old made new.
"Do this in memory of me" means to understand the new covenant. His sacrifice, the blood He split, His flesh. These words Jesus spoke meant to understand that whoever eats His flesh realises that His sacrifice surpasses all old laws and whoever drinks His blood understands that His sacrifice for humanity is the new covenant.
Nothing else is needed but to "eat of His flesh" (understand that God was made flesh) and drink His blood (understand that His crucifixion cleanses our spirits).
Melanie has it correct. John 3 occurred during Passover. Jesus is stating that because he is the real Passover sacrifice, he will send the Holy Spirit to reside within a person ensuring they can march out of the slavery of sin into a new life. This goes with the Passover meal and the breaking of bread and the cup of wine. Bread - his body broken - Wine - the new wine of the new Covenant empowered by the Holy Spirit, so one can begin their journey into new life...

John 6 occurred just before another Passover. What was required in Exodus/ Passover? Get all things ready... the sacrifice and the flour for unleavened bread for the journey because all will leave Egypt's slavery in haste:

Exo 12:11 'Now you shall eat it in this manner: with your loins girded, your sandals on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and you shall eat it in haste--it is the LORD'S Passover.
Exo 12:12 'For I will go through the land of Egypt on that night, and will strike down all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgments--I am the LORD.
Exo 12:13 'The blood shall be a sign for you on the houses where you live; and when I see the blood I will pass over you, and no plague will befall you to destroy you when I strike the land of Egypt.
Exo 12:14 'Now this day will be a memorial to you, and you shall celebrate it as a feast to the LORD; throughout your generations you are to celebrate it as a permanent ordinance.
Exo 12:15 'Seven days you shall eat unleavened bread, but on the first day you shall remove leaven from your houses; for whoever eats anything leavened from the first day until the seventh day, that person shall be cut off from Israel.
NASB

There is a lot of symbolism - only those of the household can partake, Exo 12:48, and Jesus mentions in John 6:37, 44 what? John 6:35 mentions what?

Jesus leads us away form sin's slavery during a journey where the will of the flesh dies so one is raised to new life John 6:40. Next notice that before the Passover feast Jesus said this in John 6:49,50,51...Jesus is the bread and Manna that sustains us during our hasty departure into new Life... So what is the symbolism used in the timing of saying these things mean to you?
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Re: Reconciling the John 3 with John 6

Post by jlay »

PaulSacramento wrote:
RickD wrote:What are you having a problem reconciling?
One states that belief is all that is required (3:16) and the other that states we must "eat the flesh and drink the blood", ( what some view as a commandment to partake of the Lords's Supper and only those that partake will have eternal life).
Paul, interestingly i was just studying this Monday night. Actually there is nothing to reconcile. The question is why did Jesus make it so hard for them? This was a difficult and troubling teaching. So, was Jesus withholding the Gospel of grace.

Here is the dialogue: 25 When they found him on the other side of the lake, they asked him, “Rabbi, when did you get here?”

26 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, you are looking for me, not because you saw the signs I performed but because you ate the loaves and had your fill. 27 Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.” 28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

He offered them the EXACT same Gospel. They refused and demanded a sign, saying, “What sign then will you give that we may see it and believe you? What will you do? 31 Our ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written: ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’"
Uh, what did Jesus just do? He fed 5,000. They want manna? He just gave them bread and fish. So, since they refused the Gospel, He told them what they must do. And of course, they couldn't understand such a difficult teaching. Honestly, who could? The teaching is absolutely true, but they had no means by which to understand. If you refuse grace then you are in for an uphill (or downhill) battle.
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Re: Reconciling the John 3 with John 6

Post by PaulSacramento »

Jlay and BW and Melanie,
Thanks for your views, they are inline with my understanding also.
I was discussing this with former JW's that believed that we must partake of the bread and wine ( flesh and blood) or we do NOT have everlasting life.
They believe that only those that partake are granted everlasting life.
As JW's they were told that only the anointed class could partake but after they left they realized that ALL should and that should has become a MUST for them.
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