A simple method on how to know God and get your own answers.

[LittleHamster]

Its a little obvious. But I will tell you anyway. Here we go...

Step 1. Assume we are made in God's image (I'm too tired to look up the bible reference at the moment).

Step 2. Since we are created by God (in his image) we should also be able to create as well, e.g. by giving birth to our own children that are made in our own image. Which we do.

Step 3. Now, suppose you had a few children or better still, say 100000 kids.

Step 4. Now ask your questions ! See below for some examples.....



Question 1: Gee wiz, I sent my children out into the world and they have forgotten all about me and they are trashing the place, killing each other, stealing, lusting, hating. What do I do ?
Answer: I'll send them some commandments to live by....maybe about 10 commandments should do the trick

Question 2: Holy Camoly ! they are still playing up. What else can I do? I gave them free will and they are out of control.
Answer: I'll present myself to them (in human form) and I'll give them an example of how to live - i.e., the way, the truth and the life.

Question 3: This stuff just ain't working out. These kids are driving me bananas. I think I'm gonna have to go to extreme measures now.
Answer: Being the loving father that I am, I will send each and every child of mine a helper, a guide to assist them throughout their life's journey. A guardian.

Question 4: Holy mother of God ! They still are not getting with the program. I'm at my wits end. What else can I possibly do.????
Answer: Luckily, I've introduced a backup plan. An automated reward/punishment system. Its called "what you sow is what you reap". That way when some of them keep breaking my laws, it comes back to bite them on the backside. After a while, they will go into a life crisis and (hopefully) get down on their knees and cry out "Father father, I cant take this anymore, I've sinned, I've screwed up big time. Help".

I tell you there will be more joy in my family from one sinning child who repents than 99 well behaved children.

Hehe, I've now got the plan all set. Let'em all screw up. My prodigal children will all come back as self-realized kids (knowing thyselves a bit better) with a ton of experiences under their belts.


A BIG QUESTION: Would you send one of your children to a hell for eternity for killing one of your other children ? Would that kind of punishment override your unconditional love for a murderous child ? Very often I see mothers on the 6 o'clock news stating they still love their son's even after being found guilty of horrendous crimes.
Answer: I'd be really, really, really sadened. But I personally don't think a punishment of eternal damnation justifies any crime.

[PaulSacramento]

I don't even know where to start....


Lets start here, ok?

A BIG QUESTION: Would you send one of your children to a hell for eternity for killing one of your other children ? Would that kind of punishment override your unconditional love for a murderous child ? Very often I see mothers on the 6 o'clock news stating they still love their son's even after being found guilty of horrendous crimes.
Answer: I'd be really, really, really sadened. But I personally don't think a punishment of eternal damnation justifies any crime

God doesn't send anyone anywhere, THEY send themselves to hell for eternity by rejecting God.
God loves all his Children, good or bad, that doesn't mean He has to agree with them doing wrong OR that He doesn't punish wrong doing.

To use your analogy of a parent, A father will still punish His Child of the child does wrong and still loves the child regardless.

God's love is far above and beyond our human love because God IS Love BUT He is also all that is right, ie: Justice and He can't condone what is wrong.

[B. W.]

I don't even know where to start....

Lets start here, ok?

A BIG QUESTION: Would you send one of your children to a hell for eternity for killing one of your other children ? Would that kind of punishment override your unconditional love for a murderous child ? Very often I see mothers on the 6 o'clock news stating they still love their son's even after being found guilty of horrendous crimes.
Answer: I'd be really, really, really sadened. But I personally don't think a punishment of eternal damnation justifies any crime

God doesn't send anyone anywhere, THEY send themselves to hell for eternity by rejecting God.
God loves all his Children, good or bad, that doesn't mean He has to agree with them doing wrong OR that He doesn't punish wrong doing.

To use your analogy of a parent, A father will still punish His Child of the child does wrong and still loves the child regardless.

God's love is far above and beyond our human love because God IS Love BUT He is also all that is right, ie: Justice and He can't condone what is wrong.

What does the bible say on this matter concerning if everyone is his child?

1 John 3:10, In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.

John 8:44, You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.

Now add these in... John 6:70, Mat 13:38, Acts 13:10, 1 John 3:12 and I hope folks can see that the notion that we are all God's children is built upon a lie.

In fact, humanity is an enemy of God and children of wrath Eph 2:3 and enemies Rom 5:10.

It is only by God's grace that he adopts us to become children of his light, Eph 1:5, 1Th 5:5, Eph 5:8, Rom 8:15, Rom 8:23, Rom 9:4, Gal 4:5.

It is by faith in God's Grace is how one becomes adopted as his child.

One last point, did God give birth to us or did our mothers? And was not Eve called the mother of all living human beings? (Gen 3:20) - think about it?
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[PaulSacramento]

I think that it is important to under stand that the view that we are ALL God's children means different things to different people.
To me it means that we were all created by God, that He breathed a spirit into all of us.
That He views us ALL as His Children,that we are all FREE to be His Children and that He has NOT predestined ANYONE to damnation.
I do NOT subscribe the the Calvinist view that some are predestined for damnation, I can NOT reconcile that with the God of the bible that offers salvation for all those that believe in His Son.

Now, that said, there is a difference between being A CHILD of God by faith and proclamation, and a child of God in the sense of being part of His Creation.

[LittleHamster]

I read somewhere that in the Ancient Greek literal translation of the bible, there is no such words as "eternal damnation" but instead its "damnation for a very long time". Here is the link if someone wants to go through it - > http://books.google.com.au/books?id=Npk ... &q&f=false

I guess if my kids turned away from me, I would do everything in my power to assist them in coming back home. Mind you, there are some pretty wacky parents out their that might not share this view.

[PaulSacramento]

I read somewhere that in the Ancient Greek literal translation of the bible, there is no such words as "eternal damnation" but instead its "damnation for a very long time". Here is the link if someone wants to go through it - > http://books.google.com.au/books?id=Npk ... &q&f=false

I guess if my kids turned away from me, I would do everything in my power to assist them in coming back home. Mind you, there are some pretty wacky parents out their that might not share this view.

Indeed, and what has God done for Us?
Well, lets look at it this way:
Man, in his drive to be like God, has ( from Adam on) caused so much crap and continues to do so, that when we look through out histroy, one wonders why God should even love us.
Yet, what did God do?
God became Man so that Man could return to Him and become "like God".
Let that sink in...

We are so driven to be "like God" and what did God do?
He become one of Us, lived like us, felt pain, sorrow, and died in the most painful way that a human could die ( in that time) for what reason?
So that we could return to Him, so that we could be reconciled to Him and have everlasting life in/with Him.

[B. W.]

I think that it is important to under stand that the view that we are ALL God's children means different things to different people.
To me it means that we were all created by God, that He breathed a spirit into all of us.
That He views us ALL as His Children,that we are all FREE to be His Children and that He has NOT predestined ANYONE to damnation.
I do NOT subscribe the the Calvinist view that some are predestined for damnation, I can NOT reconcile that with the God of the bible that offers salvation for all those that believe in His Son.

Now, that said, there is a difference between being A CHILD of God by faith and proclamation, and a child of God in the sense of being part of His Creation.

Again, let's look at the bible and some basic Greek...

Acts 17:28 - the word offspring is the Greek word Genos - race and the context in which the passage it is used defines it meaning so lease note Acts 17:24,25,26 express that God created and made; therefore, the word genos in verse 28 refers to created beings who share the gift of highly intelligent life. It does not mean, nor allude too, that were are biological offspring of God but rather created beings called human beings in God's order of creation.

Some people like to call all people God's children but that is incorrect and as shown, we are not that at all. In fact the bible is clear in that fallen humanity is an enemy of God and God's wrath hangs over humanity. We are created beings, God made according to His order. Accepting Jesus causes us to be adopted into his household as his children - but we are still created beings and are being restored to God's natural order within creation - Romans 8:13-22. That is what is meant by being God's child - God the Father is the author of life and through Jesus we become his heirs. In other words Christians become God's child through adoption, not that we are somehow biologically linked to God. Children in the text is the Greek word téknon (children) which refers to this adoption. A creature becoming united with God's will and purpose in God's order of Creation as originally intended by God.

It is important to note as PaulS mentions, being God's children means different things to different people. However, to use these differences to claim that since, we being human parents would never cast our own offspring into eternal flames, and therefore neither would God is a spurious argument designed (unknowingly) to force the tenants of God's justice and love to be pitied against his own tenants of love and justice on solely a human level. Yet, humanity has proven in the past, and even today, to cast its own biological offspring to be killed as human beings do torture, mistreat, and kill their own. How so - well - Nazi's with the Jews 1930-1940's, Abortion toady, the genocide of Christians in Iraq happening now.

Humanity does not even respect its own, so to claim God is somehow guilty for sending segments of humanity into an eternal abyss to reap eternally what they sown because no human being would ever torment their own, is well, rather a mark of hubris. Let's see, parents torment their own kids with divorce, abandonment, rejection, control, abuse, beatings, abortion, etc and etc... Does this make us innocent or reasons for God God's wrath?

Thank God that He came to correct this through Jesus Christ (Isa 61:1-4) and restore us back to God's natural order! AMEN!

So LittleHamster, can you see that folks do indeed torment their own and thus your argument is spurious?
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[LittleHamster]

Thanks for the reply B.W. I have to read this thread again. I forgot what my original argument was

[LittleHamster]

Hmmm, after reading this thread again, I think if we add the doings of Satan into the mix then the analogy of our relationship to our own children is a little more comparable to God's relationship to humanity. The disruptor affects both Man's relationship to God and Man's relationship to his children. If Satan wasn't around, would we all be loving each other pretty much as God loves us ? I don't really know.

[PaulSacramento]

Hmmm, after reading this thread again, I think if we add the doings of Satan into the mix then the analogy of our relationship to our own children is a little more comparable to God's relationship to humanity. The disruptor affects both Man's relationship to God and Man's relationship to his children. If Satan wasn't around, would we all be loving each other pretty much as God loves us ? I don't really know.

The analogy of God as a Parent like Us is the BEGINNING of understanding our relationship with God.
Form there we need to understand that God is so far ABOVE Us in terms of His love and devotion as we are compared to a single celled organism.