Are you a sincere seeker who has questions about Christianity, or a Christian with doubts about your faith? Post them here to receive a thoughtful response.
outlaw wrote:The only happiness the crucifixion provides is the happiness that comes with knowing you can still sin and not be punished for it because Jesus took gods beating instead, when someone else gets punished for something I did, that doesn't make me happy. It might make you happy but I that's why I find the redemption sacrifice thing a little disturbing. Celebrating a human blood sacrifice isn't my idea of a good time, ya know what I mean.
This you think about Christians?
You also mentioned Old Testament, commandments, and God's 'jealousy'.
If you are interested in getting the answers the book by Paul Copan: Is God a Moral Monster is a great one. I am in the middle of reading the kindle edition.
Thanks but this is not how I decide because if Paul Copan believes that god isn't a moral monster then his book will be bias, I could tell you to read something else who would say he is and point out all the passages why. The fact you even have to ask the question should say something in itself. Make up your own mind you have the ability to reason and make a judgement. You shouldn't need other books to try to help explain what the bible really says, why is god so bad and ambiguous when it comes to his word?
Like I've said before if you want to know the real condition of a used car don't ask the salesman. Look yourself and make up your own mind. Your not going to find out the truth of Islam by asking a Catholic priest.
And maybe the fact that Copan had to write the book (opposing new atheist movement) 'should say something in itself'.
At the end, I am making my own mind. I am able to reason. Even God encourages that. "Come now, let us reason together."
Well, I need other books. I need them because I do not live in era thousand years ago. I am curious about it so that I could better understand those times.
Well, ya, Bible itself is enough to understand essential truths.
Remember no one was born with a belief in god/s, so naturally we are all atheists, we are born atheists and if you grew up in a society that has never seen a holy book you'd remain that way and live quite happily.
There are places still like this today, if you went there and tried to tell them they were sinners that needed saving and tried to explain that 2000 yrs ago this Jesus guy etc they'd look at you like you were crackers. They probably have their own creation story which is equally as implausible as yours. The human mind is really really good at believing its own [nonsense]. Read up on a bit of psychology so you can understand why people cling to their beliefs so strongly you'll learn about another three letter word 'ego'
outlaw wrote:The only happiness the crucifixion provides is the happiness that comes with knowing you can still sin and not be punished for it because Jesus took gods beating instead, when someone else gets punished for something I did, that doesn't make me happy. It might make you happy but I that's why I find the redemption sacrifice thing a little disturbing. Celebrating a human blood sacrifice isn't my idea of a good time, ya know what I mean.
This you think about Christians?
You also mentioned Old Testament, commandments, and God's 'jealousy'.
If you are interested in getting the answers the book by Paul Copan: Is God a Moral Monster is a great one. I am in the middle of reading the kindle edition.
Thanks but this is not how I decide because if Paul Copan believes that god isn't a moral monster then his book will be bias, I could tell you to read something else who would say he is and point out all the passages why. The fact you even have to ask the question should say something in itself. Make up your own mind you have the ability to reason and make a judgement. You shouldn't need other books to try to help explain what the bible really says, why is god so bad and ambiguous when it comes to his word?
Like I've said before if you want to know the real condition of a used car don't ask the salesman. Look yourself and make up your own mind. Your not going to find out the truth of Islam by asking a Catholic priest.
And maybe the fact that Copan had to write the book (opposing new atheist movement) 'should say something in itself'.
At the end, I am making my own mind. I am able to reason. Even God encourages that. "Come now, let us reason together."
Well, I need other books. I need them because I do not live in era thousand years ago. I am curious about it so that I could better understand those times.
Well, ya, Bible itself is enough to understand essential truths.
Remember no one was born with a belief in god/s, so naturally we are all atheists, we are born atheists and if you grew up in a society that has never seen a holy book you'd remain that way and live quite happily.
There are places still like this today, if you went there and tried to tell them they were sinners that needed saving and tried to explain that 2000 yrs ago this Jesus guy etc they'd look at you like you were crackers. They probably have their own creation story which is equally as implausible as yours. The human mind is really really good at believing its own [nonsense]. Read up on a bit of psychology so you can understand why people cling to their beliefs so strongly you'll learn about another three letter word 'ego'
You do not think I am going to respond to such a post, do you?
But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21
For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6
outlaw wrote:So you were born a Christian were you? Wow clever baby
I was born as atheist in atheistic family with atheistic upbringing.
Ok, outlaw. I am not going to lose any more time with you. I rather spend it more with my husband and family.
Good luck, outlaw.
OK, thanks for attempting to answer some of my questions, I may not agree with your answers or understand your reasons but im a little closer to understanding what makes Christians tick.
outlaw wrote:This isn't a debate I'm trying to understand why Christians even after they admit that god is only saving them from god, still choose to call this loving. Im interested to hear the answers, I don't have to agree with them, and most of the time they prompt further questions, in the mean time I hope I can help Christians think about why they believe, why do they have faith in this particular god and not another, what makes this one different and what is it thats telling me it is?. Do I treat this one with the same level of skepticism as I do the others and why not? why do I accept what it says in one holy book but reject it in another?I think it's healthy sometimes to challenge yourself, to not be complacent even with the things you think your certain of. The minute you start to believe you've found the truth is the minute you lose because that's when you think you can stop, stop looking, stop asking questions, that's when you start blocking out other possible truths other information that's when you start to pretend to be certain about things your uncertain of.
Please, cut the crap! Listen, Buddy, you can't fool me and you didn't fool B.W. either. Like I said,
Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:Debating with an atheist is like playing chess with a monkey: no matter how good you are, the monkey will knock over all the pieces, defecate on the board and claim victory.
Congratulations on your victory.
FL
Hold everything lightly. If you don't, it will hurt when God pries your fingers loose as He takes it from you. -Corrie Ten Boom
+ + +
If they had a social gospel in the days of the prodigal son, somebody would have given him a bed and a sandwich and he never would have gone home.
Outlaw wrote:
Remember no one was born with a belief in god/s, so naturally we are all atheists, we are born atheists and if you grew up in a society that has never seen a holy book you'd remain that way and live quite happily.
There are places still like this today, if you went there and tried to tell them they were sinners that needed saving and tried to explain that 2000 yrs ago this Jesus guy etc they'd look at you like you were crackers. They probably have their own creation story which is equally as implausible as yours. The human mind is really really good at believing its own [nonsense]. Read up on a bit of psychology so you can understand why people cling to their beliefs so strongly you'll learn about another three letter word 'ego'
Wrong again. Nobody was born an atheist. Nobody is naturally an atheist. Just so you understand, atheism is a belief that there is no God.
You really believe newborn babies have a belief that God doesn't exist?
And this is your first warning. For someone claiming to want to learn about what makes Christians tick, you have an improper way of showing it in your posts. You can believe Jesus Christ is BS as you have stated, but you're not going to be allowed to do it here. Change your tone to one of an earnest seeker, or you will be banned.
John 5:24 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
Maybe I missed something, but why do the admins and mods here seem to get angry at questions posed and/or arguments for disbelief and right away the ban button gets ready to be pushed?
I don't get it., why are we as Christians so intolerant?
It is not as if outlaw is cussing us out., the man seeks answers and as far he remains unconvinced with the responses given, we must continue to give testimony of our faith not merely with scripture, but with measured tolerance for the unbeliever, and we must do it with love, Christ's love, not the puny little love that we run short of when we run out of patience.
So please, stay off the ban button and address the issues involved in non-belief!
Your outward profession of having put on Christ, has as yet to put off Plato from your heart!
Lonewolf wrote:Maybe I missed something, but why do the admins and mods here seem to get angry at questions posed and/or arguments for disbelief and right away the ban button gets ready to be pushed?
I don't get it., why are we as Christians so intolerant?
It is not as if outlaw is cussing us out., the man seeks answers and as far he remains unconvinced with the responses given, we must continue to give testimony of our faith not merely with scripture, but with measured tolerance for the unbeliever, and we must do it with love, Christ's love, not the puny little love that we run short of when we run out of patience.
So please, stay off the ban button and address the issues involved in non-belief!
Admin is not angry.
But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21
For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6
I'm with Rick on this one Lonewolf.
I have no issue whatsoever with anyone that has differing beliefs, I have very close friends who are athiests and we discuss on occasssion our standpoints. I am patient and optimistic with people especially concerning faith. What I do not like, which is why I disengaged with this conversation is manipulation, arrogance, condescending behaviour and delusion. Nothing to do with outlaw not agreeing with me or anyone but his tone and mannerisms. Not to mention he goes on about just wanting to seek the truth when he is very combative and intolerant in his choice of language and says that he just wants to enlighten us christians (delusion) because the truth is subjective. Well apparently it is only subjective as long as we accept his line of thinking with lines like 'only one on here has been honest' honest according to who? His delusion reasoning system. He thinks he is very clever and I'm quite sure he is under the very false pretence that he is actually making some on here question their beliefs which I must admit has been the only entertainment value, as it has given me quite a chuckle.
A discussion takes place merely to put ones thoughts, ideas, beliefs and arguments forward, never to try and twist and manipulate language and answers to underhand and sideswipe the discussion in the light of trying to 'win'. It is not about that, it shouldn't be about that and I think it reflects a persons honesty and integrity.
This is not about dealing with an atheist that I can do, this is about dealing with a douche. When he speaks to people like "born a Christian were you?. Wow clever baby" I have nothing to engage with him about. I saw this in his character long before this and I backed off for his sake and my own because had he have spoken to me in this rude and condescending manner I would not have been as nice and tolerant as Hana was, that I can assure you!
Outlaw wrote:
Remember no one was born with a belief in god/s, so naturally we are all atheists, we are born atheists and if you grew up in a society that has never seen a holy book you'd remain that way and live quite happily.
There are places still like this today, if you went there and tried to tell them they were sinners that needed saving and tried to explain that 2000 yrs ago this Jesus guy etc they'd look at you like you were crackers. They probably have their own creation story which is equally as implausible as yours. The human mind is really really good at believing its own [nonsense]. Read up on a bit of psychology so you can understand why people cling to their beliefs so strongly you'll learn about another three letter word 'ego'
Wrong again. Nobody was born an atheist. Nobody is naturally an atheist. Just so you understand, atheism is a belief that there is no God.
You really believe newborn babies have a belief that God doesn't exist?
And this is your first warning. For someone claiming to want to learn about what makes Christians tick, you have an improper way of showing it in your posts. You can believe Jesus Christ is BS as you have stated, but you're not going to be allowed to do it here. Change your tone to one of an earnest seeker, or you will be banned.
Sorry but atheism is not a 'belief that god doesn't exist' atheism isn't a belief system just like baldness isn't a hair colour atheism is simply a lack of belief. Its not a rejection of god because to reject something you'd have to first acknowledged that its there. So when you were born you lacked belief in god and anything supernatural you were and everybody was and is born atheist. I never said Jesus was BS, is your definition of an earnest seeker one who excepts all your explanations without question? I come on a religious forum and ask what I think is a pretty important question to think about, yes I asked a few tough questions and point out a few ugly bits of the bible, when the questions get too tough you tell me I'm taking it out of context or I'm making up my own version, so I ask you to set me straight so I can understand and you accuse me of not being genuine and want to ban me. Why have a forum with a subtitle 'questions for christians' if you don't want to answer questions about Christianity?
Lonewolf wrote:Maybe I missed something, but why do the admins and mods here seem to get angry at questions posed and/or arguments for disbelief and right away the ban button gets ready to be pushed?
I don't get it., why are we as Christians so intolerant?
It is not as if outlaw is cussing us out., the man seeks answers and as far he remains unconvinced with the responses given, we must continue to give testimony of our faith not merely with scripture, but with measured tolerance for the unbeliever, and we must do it with love, Christ's love, not the puny little love that we run short of when we run out of patience.
So please, stay off the ban button and address the issues involved in non-belief!
Lonewolf your a man with integrity, if there were more people like you this world it would be a more tolerant place, thank you.
Please, cut the crap! Listen, Buddy, you can't fool me and you didn't fool B.W. either. Like I said,
