So now you’re delving into the complicated area of the Trinity which I think
Christians themselves can't even comprehend. You could ask 10 different people
who say their Christians to explain how this Trinity works and you'd get 10
different answers you'd also get ones that don't believe in a Trinity. So when
you can all come to a consensus about what's the correct way to view this then
people like myself can start to figure out what you mean.
So just for clarification I need to find out how your version of this God/
Jesus/ Holy Spirit thing works but at the same time I don't want it to hijack
the original question so
Is Jesus god? Or part of e.g. the human part
Did god sacrifice Jesus or himself?
Did Jesus sacrifice himself?
Was the sole purpose of Jesus birth/life to be a sacrifice or for him to
sacrifice himself?
Was the sacrifice part of god’s plan from the beginning, or was it an
afterthought? Was the idea only thought of after god realized what people were
doing?
I'm not after evidence of this, just what you believe to be the case so short
answers will be enough.
The only reason why Jesus had to shed blood was because god couldn't think of
another way to forgive but if god is Jesus then he pretty much just sacrificed
himself to save himself from his own rule. If It’s the case that humans get our
sense of love from this act or from god then why do I not feel one bit of love
when I'm told this or read it?
Why do I and 2/3’s of the world’s population not think or feel this is love?
The only happiness the crucifixion provides is the happiness that comes with
knowing you can still sin and not be punished for it because Jesus took gods
beating instead, when someone else gets punished for something I did, that
doesn't make me happy. It might make you happy but I that's why I find the
redemption sacrifice thing a little disturbing. Celebrating a human blood
sacrifice isn't my idea of a good time, ya know what I mean.
To respond to the 'how can you believe in love unless true love is demonstrated
to you' I find it strange that you can think that the only way we can believe in love is if a supernatural deity sacrifices it's son/self to show us, and the reason you
believe this is because 2000 years ago a bunch of people claim this supernatural
being told them this and 80odd years after Jesus died people recorded these
stories then some time after that the church decided what stories they should
include in their book and what they shouldn't.
You see adherents of other religions would claim the only way to know true love
is because their god shows them and whatever it is is demonstrated in their holy
text. The reason they know this is the truth is because their holy text says it
is, they're holy text says their god is the true god and the others are false.
This is what I find interesting about people who claim they believe in god, they
try to give reasons why but when that fails because they would have to accept
those same reasons from others who don't share the same belief then they try to
resort back to 'well I just have faith' but then when you realize that if we’re
going to rely on faith then you could just as easily adopt any belief because
they all require faith. So you get this to and fro between reason and faith and
it just goes back and forth because none of them are a valid reason for or a way
of determining if something is true or not.
…
There’s a lot to address here, and it is virtually impossible to answer all your questions with short answers. I’m sure that if you pose the many questions you have each under its own subject title, I’m positive that you will get enthusiastic responses. I am by no means a studied Christian, therefore I defer to those who are more learned in scripture to point out the scriptural references. When I write here to you, I write what I feel and how I believe, but that does not necessarily mean that I speak for everyone nor that I know scripture unequivocally.
Yes indeed, understanding the trinity can be very complicated “if” one does not live what scripture says to them in their hearts. And if one only reads literally as opposed to spiritually, the trinity makes no sense. In other words, one can read the Bible from start to finish, day in and day out, and one can even confess to be a Christian all lifelong saying that you believe what the Bible says, but if one doesn't live by what it says, one cannot comprehend the word(s) of the God of the Bible. One cannot phantom the deepness of the trinity unless you immerse yourself in God. You have to live it; that is why you have heard many in Christ say that the word is a Living Testament. The same is with the trinity, you can debate it left and right, and you can build your concepts on it depending on your train of thought, philosophy or study you adhere to, but you will not come to a rational “human” conclusion unless your eyes are opened.
How that eye opening happens would be the next part of the question. My personal testimony is unlike that of other brothers in the faith who were not Christian at some point in their lives. I have always been a Christian believer in the God of the Bible. Therefore honestly speaking, I cannot ever say that I can think like an atheist, and agnostic, a Muslim, a Hindu nor even that of a Meso-American native because I have lost all connection to my past spiritual roots of ancient due to the European conquest. So I have never ever been of any other faith but the Christian faith. Having said that, a good part of my life was spent living without giving God any real thought. I was like most other non-active Christians out there in the world, simply adhering to whatever our parents, our family, our culture or heritage said about God and religion. It was not a living force in me. I was lost in a world of confusion, and I was blind to the things of God, but it didn't matter to me because it wasn't an issue to worry about. It took God many years to answer one question I posed to Him about Himself, but once He answered me, I “believed” the gospel, and my eyes where opened. Therefore “belief” is how it worked for me, to become –as you have heard it being said- “saved.”
I believed in God whom I have never ever seen with my own human eyes, I believed in the prophetic message written in the Bible that He would send a savior and that savior is Christ –God Himself in the flesh- come to redeem me to Himself.
I believed the Holy Spirit is God Himself present with me here and now; showing me, conversing with me, uplifting me, comforting me as I continue in this journey through this material world, until my time has come.
So even though God is at His throne, yet He is here present with me teaching me of all things.
I don’t just simply believe because some 2000 years ago a bunch of people claimed these things about God/Jesus. As I related previously, whereas I had always been a (Catholic) Christian per say, I was still blind in the spiritual sense, and I lived life without ever giving religion, theology or the things of God much thought. It took a conversion and a very long (yet short) journey over the years to reach the present state of my faith in Christ. I believed in the gospel, and accepted His truth into my life, and ever since He has opened my eyes to greater things that those of this world; so now I see, not just with the eyes of the flesh, but with spiritual eyes. I see now as so did too one from those first bunch of people some 2000 years ago, Paul, a dedicated Jew from the ranks of the Pharisees. Paul grew up in the religion of his fathers, family and nation. He too knew of the God of the Holy Scripture and defended his faith, but he did not see through spiritual eyes. It took an act of God to give him spiritual sight so that he could really see the sin that he had been in, and to see not simply from a religious or theological viewpoint, but from a spiritual perspective. And so it took an act of God to open my eyes, and now I no longer live in darkness.
God's is not a truth that I see as in the fashion of the many religions and their so-called sacred writings; It is a truth that illuminates (shines a light) onto every little action, unto every hidden thought, and unto every reason of man or of this world. It is an undeniable truth that uncovers everything in a man’s heart and soul.
As to the part of whether God foreordained things including JC serving as His redemptive work to save us from ourselves; from our own destruction, YES, we –Christians- believe that it was part of the master plan. It was not an afterthought. God foreordained all things and yes, God in Jesus willingly and in full communion with God the father, paid what was owed to death. Upon completion of all things, death will be no more, for it already has been defeated and holds no power over what has been made right. It is not that God did not choose any other way to forgive man’s transgressions, but because of that order of things that God set in motion (I already wrote about that order in my previous post), that that order cannot allow for things to continue going any which way direction indefinitely, otherwise that same order will be no order at all. A kingdom cannot remain if it is divided.
When you talk about other non-Christian religious faiths, they are not the same faith as in our God of the Bible. The Hindu gods are many, and the Hindu religion incorporates a little bit of everyone else’s religion that they (Hindus) have come into contact with. The Islamic faith copies a lot from the Judeo/Christian scripture, but their faith requires only a certain daily repetition of the creed (There is no God but Allah; and Muhammad is the messenger of Allah.) In addition, they have to pray five times a day, at dawn, midday, midafternoon, sunset and nightfall. They also are obliged to give alms, also to fast during the month of Ramadan in remembrance of the month when Mohammed first received his supposed revelation, and finally at least once during their lifetime do a pilgrimage to Mecca. This is all that a Muslim is required to perform and be granted paradise. It is far from being the same faith that we Christians have. Any decent comparison of the world’s religions and faiths can educate one to the fact that they are not by any measure “equals.”
Which God and Truth to believe in is the next question, right?
There is a sure way to find out for yourself and determine whether what they tell you is true and valid or not. If you care to, immerse yourself into Islam or Hinduism, then, if they leave you lacking in your heart and mind, give the God of the Bible a try; what’s there to lose? But don’t assume that they teach the same Good Spirit, because they don’t. So it remains for you to find out for yourself, to believe or not to believe.
You asked (or stated) as why neither you nor 2/3 of the world do not/cannot feel the love of God/Jesus spoken about in the gospels and scripture; Well, each individual has their own reasons, anything from not caring for it to not being able to understand it, like it is the case with you. Each person has to answer for themselves as to why they don’t feel it. Others here and I can quote you scripture as to the reason(s) why we believe that you cannot feel that love, but you will dismiss them as non-valid in your unbelief of scripture. Yet I can’t help but to think that your inquiries here on the God of the Bible are because you feel something in you, and the questions have the purpose of helping you to -maybe even- accept the faith. Otherwise why else would you delve so much into a Christian faith discussion, and in the process suffer both preaching and antagonism? There’s something in you that is propelling you in search for answers; to maybe help relieve your unbelief. It is almost as if your unbelief is requiring validation, IMO.
You have read the brothers here and I’m sure elsewhere say to you, that in order to see and hear the God of our faith, you “must” believe, there’s just no way around it.
mentioned and I have too, that as former atheist, we applied the same logic as Outlaw is doing now. With us, the more we argued, seeds of faith were planted that lead us to the Lord in due time. My open prayer is that will happen to Outlaw so his bigotry is erased by the blood of Christ and he gets to know Jesus before it is too late. it was the tuff love and hard hitting harsh answers from experienced Christians that I could never defeat and it was these that left the most impact the Lord later used to save me from a sure demise. 
