Theophilus Vs. Oneness Pentecostal

[Lonewolf]

Concerning the Trinity

I found this debate to be very interesting and educational..

A proper idea of God, in order to satisfy scripture, must have:

1- One Person Who is God

2- A trinity

3- An explanation of why Jesus prayed to the Father as if He were a separate and distinct person.

When Jehovah inhabited His natural body, Jesus, He had a dual personality, His own and the personality He inherited, or took upon Himself, from us through Mary. This personality prayed to Jehovah. This nature was able to be tempted with evil whereas Jehovah cannot.

Matthew 4:1 “Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.”

James 1:13 “...God cannot be tempted with evil...”

The fallible nature which could be tempted with evil was in the process of being made divine, or to say it another way, Jehovah was in the process of deifying the sinful nature which He inherited from us through Mary. In a sense, Jehovah completely separated from His lower nature ( My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Matthew 27:46) while still retaining it, but deifying it (“...all power is given unto me [Jesus] in heaven and in earth.” Matthew 28:18).

Now that Jehovah has deified His human ( “...it is finished...” John 19:30), God has become man and man has become God in the person Jesus Christ, the one and only God of heaven and earth. Jesus is the alpha and omega, the beginning and the end, the only object of our worship. He is Father, Son and Holy Spirit, omnipresent, almighty, and omniscient. The nature which prayed to the Father and could be tempted with evil is no more.

[In our regeneration, we are called upon to crucify our sinful nature by withdrawing from it also. However, we cannot withdraw to the degree that Jehovah did, we will eternally be in the process of being perfected.]

The Holy Trinity consists of God's Eternal Essence (Father), God's Divine Human (Son) and That which proceeds (Holy Spirit). We are created in His image and also have an essence, a body and that which proceeds.

Now we have an explanation which satisfies scripture. The idea which you have proposed presents Jesus as having lived from eternity and as being fully God while on earth. If so, why could he be tempted with evil?

If you will be prayerful and open minded about this, I believe that you have been presented with enough evidence to see why it is so important to abandon the wrong idea of three separate and distinct divine persons.

Your friend and brother,

Keith

Link ~> http://community.beliefnet.com/go/threa ... it_up?pg=1

[PaulSacramento]

The moment people use the term Jehovah, I tend to worry...

[Lonewolf]

The moment people use the term Jehovah, I tend to worry...

True, but it is interesting to learn how they piece together their theology and understanding of God being the same Father, Son & Holy Spirit without the trinity.

[PaulSacramento]

The moment people use the term Jehovah, I tend to worry...

True, but it is interesting to learn how they piece together their theology and understanding of God being the same Father, Son & Holy Spirit without the trinity.

A bit muddled in my view...

One of the "nails on the coffin" for me in terms of accepting the Trinity was the issue of God being Love.
If God is GOD then He is the highest possible example of anything good: the highest good, the highest justice, they highest love.
God can not be evil because that is a direct contridiction of being the highest Good.
Back to love.
To be the highest Love God can NOT be self-centered in His love, it must be other-centered love.
And since God can't need anything to love ( because God can't need), then it means that this love that is centered on OTHERS must exist in HIMSELF.
Hence the Trinity, a Triune being that is full ONE and THREE and that ALL love is self-sufficient ( ONE) and other-centered (THREE).

[Rob]

A bit muddled in my view...

One of the "nails on the coffin" for me in terms of accepting the Trinity was the issue of God being Love.
If God is GOD then He is the highest possible example of anything good: the highest good, the highest justice, they highest love.
God can not be evil because that is a direct contridiction of being the highest Good.
Back to love.
To be the highest Love God can NOT be self-centered in His love, it must be other-centered love.
And since God can't need anything to love ( because God can't need), then it means that this love that is centered on OTHERS must exist in HIMSELF.
Hence the Trinity, a Triune being that is full ONE and THREE and that ALL love is self-sufficient ( ONE) and other-centered (THREE).

Jumping in for a quick "Hallelujah!"
Hope you don't mind, but that's pretty awesome and I couldn't repress myself.

[abelcainsbrother]

Don't forget Jesus fulfilled all of the law for us and paid for our salvation in full so of course he prayed to the father God because he was fulfilling everything for us.Jesus was the word in the flesh fulfilling it,living it out for us because we can't.

[B. W.]

Concerning the Trinity

I found this debate to be very interesting and educational...

Question, is there is none like God and no other like him as the scriptures portray as well as the 10 Commandments mention that one not to make a likeness of him from the things around the Israelites. So then why do oneness folks insist that God's oneness is the same as their own? does not that violate the first two of the 10 Commandments?

For God to be transcendentally different above all means that his state of oneness will likewise be unlike anything we can fully fathom.

In the OT, it is clear, He revealed his oneness as three persons - Father - Son - Holy Spirit often and overwhelming so. It is in the original languages and parts of speech used in the OT.

Look at the verse below as an example of this:

Isa 48:12 "Listen to Me, O Jacob, And Israel, My called: I am He, I am the First, I am also the Last. (Please Note Rev 1:17,18 as well too)
Isa 48:13 Indeed My hand has laid the foundation of the earth, And My right hand has stretched out the heavens; When I call to them, They stand up together.
Isa 48:14 "All of you, assemble yourselves, and hear! Who among them has declared these things? The LORD loves him; He shall do His pleasure on Babylon, And His arm shall be against the Chaldeans.

Isa 48:15 I, even I, have spoken; Yes, I have called him, I have brought him, and his way will prosper.

Isa 48:16 "Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, I was there. And now the Lord GOD (YHWH) and His Spirit Have sent Me."
Isa 48:17 Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, The Holy One of Israel: "I am the LORD your God, Who teaches you to profit, Who leads you by the way you should go.

Gen 19:24 Then the LORD rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from the LORD out of the heavens.

Isa 34:16 Look in the scroll of the LORD and read: None of these will be missing, not one will lack her mate. For it is his mouth that has given the order, and his Spirit will gather them together. (Please Note John 1:1-14)


Isa 40:10 Behold, the Lord GOD (YHWH) will come with might, With His arm ruling for Him. Behold, His reward is with Him And His recompense before Him.
Isa 40:11 Like a shepherd He will tend His flock, In His arm He will gather the lambs And carry them in His bosom; He will gently lead the nursing ewes.
Isa 40:12 Who has measured the waters in the hollow of His hand, And marked off the heavens by the span, And calculated the dust of the earth by the measure, And weighed the mountains in a balance And the hills in a pair of scales?
Isa 40:13 Who has directed the Spirit of the LORD, Or as His counselor has informed Him?

There are so many examples other than these

Verses cited are from the NKJV
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